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Author Topic: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend  (Read 1088 times)

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« on: January 20, 2022, 06:30:58 pm »
This coin is unlisted in RIC but listed in Cloke & Toone "London mint..." under no. 4.04.006. So is generally identified. However, I still have some doubts about reading of the obverse legend.

Cloke & Toone gives: FL VAL CONSTANTINVS NOB C. "VAL CONSTANTINVS NOB C" is clear and certain. But what comes before? It seems that there is too much room for FL alone and that there are at least three letters before VAL. FLA - I guess.

Am I right or this is only my personal problem with eyes?
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Offline Merinda

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2022, 03:19:21 am »
3 letters for me as well Lech   :)

Offline djmacdo

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2022, 08:40:16 am »
I see just FL.  We really need a much better picture.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2022, 10:17:20 am »
I see just FL.  We really need a much better picture.

Sorry, it's the best picture I have. And do you really see just FL (two letters) in this marked area?
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2022, 10:43:01 am »
I see Fl and the beginning of the rest of the legend.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2022, 10:59:28 am »
I see Fl and the beginning of the rest of the legend.

But VAL is outside this area. I have marked only those letters which are before VAL CONSTANTINVS NOB C. The question is: what precedes VAL....
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2022, 06:00:24 pm »
We really need better photos--a shame they are not available.

Offline OldMoney

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2022, 12:12:17 pm »
There looks to be a very slight double strike and die shift.

Have a look at the rim beading at the top, there is an overlap of the two
strikes. That may explain the presence of the anomalous "extra" letter at
the beginning of the legend.

Of course a better image or viewing the coin in hand would greatly assist.

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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2022, 01:27:31 pm »
I agree it appears to be FLA VAL CONSTANTINVS NOB C

There was another coin with this legend in the 1865 Falmouth hoard, described here by Lord Stewartby in vol. 81 (2011) of the British Numismatic Journal.

https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/2011_BNJ_81_1.pdf

The coin is # 21, shown on plate 2, and also below. The plate quality isn't so great, but in the text Stewartby gives his reading as "FLA VAL".

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2022, 02:24:32 pm »
I agree it appears to be FLA VAL CONSTANTINVS NOB C

Thanks for the confirmation - so I need not change my glasses.

And this was exactly my way to this coin. I was just browsing plates from Lord Stewartby's article, when I came across this FLA VAL CONSTANTINVS... legend.  But then I noted with surprise that there is no such legend in Cloke-Toone (although they have Stewardby's article in their bibliography). So I took a magnifying glass to check their plates for FL VAL and immediately found this another Constantine.


Lech Stępniewski
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2022, 06:08:01 pm »
I worked on the image a bit.  Perhaps this helps.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2022, 10:09:03 am »
I worked on the image a bit.  Perhaps this helps.

Thanks. LA in FLA is clear.
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Offline London

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Re: CONSTANTINE London mint Problem with obverse legend
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2022, 08:10:23 am »
Thanks to you all for questioning the LMCC description of this coin.  Those favoring the reading FLA are correct; our book is not.  To be certain I contacted Edward Besly who supplied us with the image from the Sully II hoard and he confirmed the FLA obverse legend.

Lee and I have begun preparing a second edition of LMCC and welcome discussions such as this one to be sure errors are corrected in the new edition.  When corrected this coin type will be listed as "4.04.006 cor."

Hugh Cloke

 

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