FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Byzantine Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Ronen G on March 02, 2023, 06:40:37 am

Title: Byzantine Gold Hyperpyron ID and value ?
Post by: Ronen G on March 02, 2023, 06:40:37 am

Hi All, my first post - I have reason to request some help in identifying ths coin of anyone can help ? I think it is John III Doukas Vatatzes and it is 4.5 grm in weight.

Can any one confirm or advise and give an indication of value please ?

Title: Re: Byzantine Gold Hyperpyron ID and value ?
Post by: Ron C2 on March 02, 2023, 07:51:11 am

To me it looks like sear 2072, DOC IV, 1-2.  John III Ducas-Vatatzes, 1223-1254AD.

Technically, he reigned over Nicaea, and not Constantinople.

Generally we don't comment on value here. You might look at past auctions for an idea.

Title: Re: Byzantine Gold Hyperpyron ID and value ?
Post by: Ronen G on March 02, 2023, 09:28:22 am

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I had thought the same about its ID but wasnt 100%

I've been offered this but the price is way too high going by past auctions.

Title: Re: Byzantine Gold Hyperpyron ID and value ?
Post by: Ron C2 on March 02, 2023, 06:33:13 pm

Fwiw, add 20% buyer's premium to auction prices if you are comparing.

Title: Re: Byzantine Gold Hyperpyron ID and value ?
Post by: Simon on March 08, 2023, 02:42:36 pm

I agree with Ronen  BUT it could be a John II Comnenus Hyperpyron. The coins of John III were nock offs of John II Thessalonica issues, the only difference is J2 is 19carat, J3 is 17carat.  John III even took the title born in the purple ( He was Not) from John II coins he was copying.

A very long paper by Eleni Lianta goes to great lengths to prove this. Bottom line she says no visual way to distinguish between the two rulers.

https://www.academia.edu/35195487/John_II_Comnenus_1118_43_or_John_III_Vatatzes_1222_54_Distinguishing_the_Hyperpyra_of_John_II_from_those_of_John_III_pdf