Roman army vs. Modern Marines

[Dk0311USMC]

If Cleopatra is still on the throne they might be able to work something out there...

Otherwise Alexandria might be made an offer they can't refuse. I think the locals there may still be willing to do business as usual. The city of Rome is the nerve center of the empire at that date so I think starting there would bring the rest of the empire to its knees. It's just the first phase.

[nogoodnicksleft]

The more people they kill (& the more they interfer), the great chance of changing the history for one of their ancesters, which as anybody who watched Back to the Future knows, would mean that they would fad out of existance. The chances of this happening must be quite high considering the smaller world population at this time (approx 150 million in 1 AD according to some websites) and the number of generations inbetween now & then.  

[Dk0311USMC]

The more people they kill (& the more they interfer), the great chance of changing the history for one of their ancesters, which as anybody who watched Back to the Future knows, would mean that they would fad out of existance. The chances of this happening must be quite high considering the smaller world population at this time (approx 150 million in 1 AD according to some websites) and the number of generations inbetween now & then.  

It probably wouldn't take much to rewire history and the present, but I think this is more hypothetical, discontinuing the fact that our whole world would have changed as a result.

[mwilson603]

Well, what with the fading out of existence, dying from ancient microbes and the inevitable "friendly-fire" deaths, I doubt that there would be much of a force left to conquer much 
regards
Mark

[Joe Sermarini]

...Goldsworthy says. "An average unit of Marines is not likely to be able to make an oil refinery, start generating electricity, or create machine tools to make spare parts for equipment." And even if they could figure it out, it would take many months or even years. So, as soon as the Marines ran out of gas, their tanks would become little more than hunks of metal.

This is wrong.  The Marines would be able to do all of these things.  And they would be much too smart to expend their resources before they figured it out.  They are lead by college graduates with training in military tactics in addition to numerous other specialties, including, engineering, history and logistics.  A MEU has spare parts.  They have mechanics, machinists, people who have done all sorts of things before joining and while in the military.  They would know how to make a generator.  They would know how to make batteries.  They would know how to make gunpowder.  They would know how to make bombs, rockets, grenades, artillery, etc.  There are petroleum engineers in the military, though a MEU might not have one, they would have officers with less formal petroleum training.  I personally attended a 2 year petroleum management internship program.  They don't use gasoline, they use much simpler diesel and jet fuel.  Both can easily be replaced with a kerosene like fuel which is not complex to make.  They could make bio fuel.  In the long run, they do know where the crude is.  Saudi crude is almost kerosene straight out of the ground.  Heat it up a little take the stuff that rises to the top and you have good fuel.  They might have to abandon the gas guzzling tanks for some time but they wouldn't need them.  Marines are not just a bunch of dumb grunts who would shoot off all their bullets and then sit around waiting to be surrounded and killed.  They would use psychological warfare as the primary weapon.  They would also use diplomacy.  They would win.  

[Robert_Brenchley]

The nearest historical equivalent is probably the conquest of the Incas. Half a dozen armoured horsemen could take on an Inca army and win, and on one occasion they did exactly that. They weren't isolated in time, though, and we're talking about considerably higher technology than 16th Century armour. Even that needed highly skilled craftsmen to make.

The potential is there to make some pretty nasty weapons with basic technology, but there are some difficulties. For instance, you can make black powder quite easily, and doubtless get as far as a musket with Roman-era technology. but to make them effective, you need a cottage industry to back you up. You need people making the guns, a supply of lead, other people making the powder. Otherwise, you won't be able to keep going. You can't use either diplomacy or psychological warfare without underswtanding the language; how many Marines are fluent in Latin or Greek?

[rover1.3]

...how many Marines are fluent in Latin or Greek?

Looks like Marines are able to do anything. Even to speak Greek.

[Will Hooton]

...Goldsworthy says. "An average unit of Marines is not likely to be able to make an oil refinery, start generating electricity, or create machine tools to make spare parts for equipment." And even if they could figure it out, it would take many months or even years. So, as soon as the Marines ran out of gas, their tanks would become little more than hunks of metal.

 There are petroleum engineers in the military, though a MEU might not have one, they would have officers with less formal petroleum training.  I personally attended a 2 year petroleum management internship program.  They don't use gasoline, they much simpler diesel and jet fuel.  Both can easily be replaced with a kerosene like fuel which is not complex to make.  They could make bio fuel.  In the long run, they do know where the crude is.  Saudi crude is almost kerosene straight out of the ground.  Heat it up a little take the stuff that rises to the top and you have good fuel. 

They might be able to improvise a fractioning column to do all that, but most hydraulic and pneumatic systems require very specific synthetic oils for lubrication. These cannot be be field improvised and require very specific industrial synthesis for production. The MEU could absolutely not depend on it's vehicles in the long run. The consequences of using improvised oils and grease are failure of parts through overheating, rust, increased component wear rate, etc......

[mwilson603]

They would know how to make a generator.  They would know how to make batteries.  They would know how to make gunpowder.  They would know how to make bombs, rockets, grenades, artillery, etc.  .............They would use psychological warfare as the primary weapon.  They would also use diplomacy.  They would win.   

Dang, I guess I had it wrong through my teenage years.  It's obvious now that McGyver and The A Team must have been Marines

regards

Mark

[Joe Sermarini]

America is a land of immigrants.  It would not be at all surprising if one or more members of a MEU grew up in a house where they spoke Greek at home.  I would be extremely surprised if none of the Marines had studied Latin.  Many Marines would speak Spanish and probably could learn Latin quickly.  But really that does not matter. 

To say the Marines couldn't use psychological warfare without understanding the language is completely wrong. Psychological warfare is using all aspects of psychology to achieve victory. We are not talking pamphlets and radio broadcasts.  The most important use of psychological warfare in this scenario would be to demonstrate power so overwhelming that it would not be challenged.  It would take very little of a MEU's resources to do that. For example, firing a single shell taking down a city wall would probably be enough to make an ancient city surrender (only gods could do something like that).  Even if one shell was not enough, how much more would it take?  A sniper shooting a few people in the head?  Would it take more?  How many booms and dead people could it possibly take?  After the first few cities, the rest would know the Marines were coming before they arrived.  The gates would all be wide open when they arrived.     

They might not be able to maintain their existing vehicles or weapons in the long run but they certainly would be able to make vehicles and weapons that they could maintain.  And we are not talking black powder and muskets either.   

My daughter just made batteries for her science project.  She is 10 years old.  Other kids in her class made generators and radios.  All were made from objects easily obtainable in ancient Rome.   

Don't underestimate the Marines because they have not been entirely dominant in modern times against insurgents and guerrilla warfare.  The capability of the Marines in modern warfare is restricted by morality, concern about winning hearts and minds, about right and wrong, and by concern for sparing innocents. Without those restrictions, modern insurgents, in Afganistan for example, could be utterly exterminated and their support utterly destroyed...and they have guns. 

[Dk0311USMC]

Not to mention that the enormous population of freed slaves might be willing to help as well as other defectors willing to join the winning side.  Just the fact of seeing a helicopter fly might be enough for many to submit to the Marines.

I'm sure many Marines out of a MEU would have possibly studied some Latin in school, especially some of the officers.   Also the Marines have a fairly high population of Hispanics that speak Spanish fluently.

 Out of roughly 2200 troops, you will find people with all types of backgrounds and skills. Getting a group of people  together to engineer all sorts of weaponry and other ingenuity known to man throughout mans history would be feasible.  In time they may even be able to create hydroelectric power on the Tiber for example.  The Ancients would be chomping at the bit to find out what they know and can do.

[Lloyd Taylor]

My daughter just made batteries for her science project.  She is 10 years old.  Other kids in her class made generators and radios.  All were made from objects easily obtainable in ancient Rome.    
 

I am with Joe S. on this.  To think otherwise is to grossly underestimate the consequence and impact of 2,000 years of knowledge development and intellectual capital. Weight of numbers only counts to a certain point and once over this initial short term hurdle, a very low one for a fully equipped marine corps unit, then the quality of thought and knowledge would win the day over the long run.

As for ancient infectious bugs versus the modern more evolved ones, then give me the ancient ones and my 2,000 year old inherited immune system will deal with them easily any day.

To the Romans our modern voice, language and communication might initially sound like the chatter and babble of barbarians. Shortly thereafter it would become music to their ears.  

The appropriate questions to consider in this context: Do the gods speak to us or we to them? And how would a bunch of fully equipped marines appear to the Romans?

[rover1.3]

And how would a bunch of fully equipped marines appear to the Romans?

And how would a bunch of fully equipped Romans appear to the marines?  

[Lloyd Taylor]

And how would a bunch of fully equipped marines appear to the Romans?

And how would a bunch of fully equipped Romans appear to the marines?  

Dead meat! 

[Lloyd Taylor]

When your think about the rapid evolution of pathogens, generally directed towards more aggressive and infectious forms, it would probably be sufficient for the marine unit to stand up wind of the Roman opposition and sneeze and pass wind in unison. Within 24 hours the downwind recipients would be seriously incapacitated if not terminally ill.    Now that's smarts... modern germ warfare inflicted on an ancient enemy.