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Author Topic: Medieval hook-something????  (Read 4872 times)

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Offline Archaic

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Medieval hook-something????
« on: October 12, 2009, 11:20:12 pm »
Hello,
Here an unknown find from the Netherlands. Found a couple of years ago by a friend of mine. He found it in the damped moat of a terrain where once a castle stood. It was found pretty deep!
It's a long iron stick with on one end a spike with, on the side, small hook and on the other end an attachment for a wooden pole. The iron is decorated with three copper or bronze rings.
Meassurements:
L 43,5cm
diameter thickest ring:  2,7cm
diameter middle ring:    1,5cm
diameter smallest ring: 2,0cm
Hook:
L   4,5cm

Anybody an idea where this artefact was used for???

Tim

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 12:17:43 pm »
My guess - inflicting pain and killing. 
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nemo

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 12:32:48 pm »
The item with the hook is a fireplace poker. The object with two tines is also probably hearth-related - a spit?

Offline PeterD

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 12:36:57 pm »
I would guess a fishing gaff - specially as it was found in a moat.
Peter, London

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Maffeo

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2009, 02:26:39 pm »
wild guess: the two-pronged thing is a medieval hair curling iron

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 03:48:10 am »
The two prongs are on the same object and were used to attach the point and hook to a wooden pole. 
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Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 05:55:37 am »
Most probably a ceremonial (?) pole weapon tip based on one of the following, but probably a Fauchard variant:

Fauchard
A fauchard is a type of polearm which was used in medieval Europe from the 11th through the 14th centuries. The design consisted of a curved blade put atop a 6–7-foot long pole. The blade bore a moderate to strong curve along its length, however unlike a glaive the cutting edge was only on the concave side. This made the fauchard blade resemble that of a sickle or a scythe. This was not a very efficient design for the purposes of war, and was eventually modified to have one or more lance points attached to the back or top of the blade. This weapon is called a fauchard-fork, but is very often erroneously referred to as a guisarme or bill-guisarme since it superficially appears to have a "hook".

Guisarme
A guisarme (sometimes gisarme, giserne or bisarme) was a pole weapon used in Europe primarily between 1000–1400. It was used primarily to dismount knights and horsemen. Like most polearms it was developed by peasants by combining hand tools with long poles: in this case by putting a pruning hook onto a spear shaft. While hooks are fine for dismounting horsemen from mounts, they lack the stopping power of a spear especially when dealing with static opponents. While early designs were simply a hook on the end of a long pole, later designs implemented a small reverse spike on the back of the blade. Eventually weapon makers incorporated the usefulness of the hook in a variety of different polearms and guisarme became a catch-all for any weapon that included a hook on the blade. Ewart Oakeshott has proposed an alternative description of the weapon as a crescent shaped socketed axe.

refer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_weapon

Offline Oak

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 12:31:04 pm »
Perhaps it was used to fish bodies out of the moat.

Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 01:21:00 pm »
Well, to fish stuff out of the moat, anyway.  I agree that it is a gaff (and not a weapon).  George S.
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Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 08:09:11 pm »
To my mind, the nicely preserved brass rings around the shaft of the barb appear to be ceremonial ornamentation, rather than serving a functional purpose. Hence, my belief it is likely to be of ceremonial, rather than functional use and that it is loosely based on a medieval weapon, although not a weapon itself.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 04:50:46 pm »
I really doubt there were fish in most moats, since that is were the sewage probably went. 
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Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 09:48:38 pm »
I really doubt there were fish in most moats, since that is were the sewage probably went. 

If there were fish in the moats, the locals would most certainly have the smarts not to catch, gaff and eat them! And I suspect that they had better things to do than catch and release after a brief photo (aka sketch) op. for the local castle newsletter!

I vaguely recall seeing images of this type of pole end on poles that displayed banners/flags bearing knightly coats of arms.  However, I cannot recall the publication.  That the metal pole end is ceremonial in nature and function remains my bet.

Offline PeterD

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 10:05:47 am »
Many moats were simply part of a diverted river or stream and were therefore constantly cleansed. In medieval times castles and monasteries would have had their own 'fish-farms' - a nearby section of a river that was enclosed to breed fish.
Peter, London

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Offline PeterD

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Re: Medieval hook-something????
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 01:34:20 pm »
This is Bodiam Castle, a late moated castle in Sussex, south-east England.

It was built half way up a hillside in the valley of the River Rother. The reason for building it here was to utilise the many natural springs that arose around about. These still rise and were used to feed an extensive system of artificial pools, of which the moat is the sole survivor.
Peter, London

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