why most of fakes- casts?

[Vladimir]

What is a difference for a forgerer in $ between making a cast copy and  a real die-struck copy?
another question, if someone finds a real roman/antique dies and start  minting coins,  from apropriate silver alloy, will we be able to tell the difference? and how?

[Robert_Brenchley]

The dies would have to be in perfect condition, which would be unlikely, and remember that no undoubtedly official Roman die has been found. But if such a thing did happen, and the guy got the technique right, it would be extremely hard to tell the difference!

[Jerome Holderman]

and remember that no undoubtedly official Roman die has been found.

Are you sure about that Robert? I have seen a few for sale at various times in Major auctions, and was convinced that they were in fact Roman. One of Vespasian in particular comes to mind. But of course a die that has been burried in the earth for 1500-2000 years is likely to suffer many of the same problems as coins do, and probably would not withstand much striking.

[TRPOT]

I doubt anyone would risk damaging an ancient die to make a few counterfiet coins because the die would be worth a lot more than the coins! Besides, this person would need dies for both sides anyways. The odds of finding both dies for the same issue would be extremely slim.

[*Alex]

and remember that no undoubtedly official Roman die has been found.

Are you sure about that Robert? I have seen a few for sale at various times in Major auctions, and was convinced that they were in fact Roman. One of Vespasian in particular comes to mind. But of course a die that has been burried in the earth for 1500-2000 years is likely to suffer many of the same problems as coins do, and probably would not withstand much striking.

I agree with Robert on this one, the dies which you have seen for sale (possibly in Beverly Hills? ), although ancient, are not thought to be products from any official Roman mint.

Alex.

[slokind]

Agreeing with TRPOT about the practical impossibility of possessing both dies (and the right ones--same issue!), I'll treat this as a philosophical question.  I think that with present technology and metallurgical knowledge it would be possible to distinguish recently mined and minted silver from ancient minted silver.  This also is assuming that the new coins were anvil-struck.  Given the astronomical monetary value of a matched pair of official dies, it would take a pretty dumb forger to risk them in use, but the egotism of forgers, to achieve the great orgasmic gotcha, might outweign even that consideration.
I do think, however, that Vladimir meant this as a 'philosophical' question, concerning the meaning of genuineness.  Personally, I see no fundamental distinction between a forger of artifacts and art works and other evidence and the young man photographed and widely broadcast using a veritably Herculean staff to try (repeatedly and mightily) to break through the tempered glass door of a high-end shop in New Orleans, except that the former have the luxuries of privacy and non-violence (except, of course, non-bodily violence).  I admit that the advances in faking Greek painted pottery, particularly to defeat the laboratory tests as well as those of expert knowledge, spoiled that field of study for me, made it seem that my love for it and my knowledge of it were pointless (that was my failure).  The infantile psychology of criminals makes me sick.  When I taught once in a high security prison, I saw with dreadful intensity that it was that arrested development of personality combined with adult hormonal drives that distinguished the population of lifers.  So with the forgers, the most gifted of whom could be good craftsmen and teachers and scholars if they were whole persons (so you see that it is not just physical violence but sublimated and perverted drives, too, that I have in mind).  Pointless to ask whose fault a criminal mind is.  The struggle between the altruist and the grabbing brat is unending.  Patricia Lawrence

[Rupert]

Back to the original question.

To strike a fake coin, you will have to engrave the image negatively in some metal, a hard metal like iron preferably, which is an awful lot of work, and in the course of this work the smallest mistake can spoil everything. Then you have to harden the dies, cast or forge metal into flans, and strike the coin. A huge effort for a few coins (you won't be able to sell many die-identical coins!), and it's very likely that you'll make mistakes in the production of the dies.

To cast a fake coin, just make moulds from a real coin, the easiest material to use would be plaster or clay (many forgers' moulds in clay have been found), then join the moulds, make an opening for pouring the metal in, maybe another to let air out, heat the metal and the mould, pour the metal in, destroy the mould, and there you are. The surface quality will depend on your skills, but you'll never have to worry about style, since the style will be the one of the original coin that you made the mould from. Also, you can certainly re-use the moulds a few times if you handle them carefully.

So to make it short, making dies requires expertise, while casting fake coins is something that every do-it-yourselfer can learn.

Rupert

[basemetal]

As I've stated before, invent a time-traveling machine, go back and sucessfully buy up lots of new coins.
Gonna get rich quick right?  Nope.
Your purchases would be labeled as extremely high quality forgeries unless subjected to modern spectroscipic (not the right term but means age of metals, ect)
The effort required to produce convincing (fool the experts) class fakes of ancient roman coins must surely outweigh the the potential profit involved.
That is not to deny the obvious existence of fakes. 
The sale of fakes is fueled by two things-the gullibility of the uninitatied (me probably) and the idea that
I bought this sucker for a song-it's a fake.  Report it? Naaa...sell it again!
A better option.....sell the patent for the time machine.

[basemetal]

Also, there IS a site that purports to sell counterfiters dies at $6,000 per.
They look authentic. 
Catch is-only one side.  Mmmm...I've got six grand..buy the die or....what kind of cash could I realize with $6, 000 dollars to spend on REAL roman coins for resale.  As Steve Martin said in the movie "The Jerk" ....it's a profit deal.

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you had a TARDIS available, you could go back in time, raid Brutus' mint for a stack of EID MAR's, and bury them somewhere in the mountains with a limestone soil. Then come back in modern times, retrieve them, and sell one a year so as not to spoil the market.

[Massanutten]

  I can see no reason for the good Dr. Who to be in the least concened while greater issues of a planetary scale must be addressed that do not involve Roman coinage 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Unless they were controlled by the Daleks of course. Maybe that explains why they lasted so long.

[basemetal]

Bury them...go back...ok...a qick trip to ah...modern Serbia.....no one would challenge you...stranger...gasp American....what's all that excavating gear you have?  Gonna take it out through customs?  Ever see "Midnight Express"? 
But ok...say you got 'em over here safe and sound...mint condition coins of _________ you name it.
Wow the collectors say...let me at them! No....how'd you get ahold of high class fakes? Yes. Some would buy.  Others, would take a long look and say...inevetiably.....great counterfeits. No wear, no patina, no...good explination of how you got 'em.

[basemetal]

By the way...I was recently traveling in very, very rural North Carolina....out of the way place where if car broke down you'd likely as help recieve reply"
Boy...this road doan go to Greensboro..now yew get on up in them woods thair" (I'm  a native North Carolinian)
and in a front yard what do I see..but a bright red British telephone booth out in the front yard....go figure.

[Massanutten]

  Perhaps it was the guest house?? 

[newbeonecoinobe]

Although in bad shape check out page 16 of Ancient Coin Collecting by Sayles (Roman obverse Die)

Pete