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Author Topic: Magnentius OTD.  (Read 2731 times)

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Offline Varangian

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Magnentius OTD.
« on: March 28, 2005, 09:30:52 pm »
This is a common coin in average shape, but I think the bust is exceptionally detailed.  Most busts of Magnentius on bronzes are, well, "standardized".  I believe I could pick this guy out on the street.

Rome mint, officina S=6 (whatever that means, I thought S=2, but apparently that's B.  I understand S=sexta, what's B?), minted Spring-June 350
RIC VIII 197, common.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 06:00:44 am »
Are there any theories as to why he would have adopted the bare bust at a time when it normally indicated junior status?
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Offline maridvnvm

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 06:01:30 am »
The officina mark is given in either Latin, P(rima), S(ecvnda), T(ertia) etc.. or in Greek A(lpha), B(eta), G(Gamma) etc.

So what looks like an S could be S for secunda of S for Stigma. I must admit that your example looks like a Latin S for Secunda but I am not familiar with the use for this series.

G/< at Probvs.info has a neat page on this... direct link below...

http://probvs.info/probvs/z-mintmarks/a-mintmarkNumeral.html

Regards,
Martin

Offline cscoppa

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 06:31:20 am »
The six mint marks listed in RIC for this series are as follows:

P, B, T, Q, epsilon & stigma.  The epsilon is often reported as E and the stigma as an S.  So six would be correct for your coin.
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Offline maridvnvm

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 06:36:27 am »
Surely there must be two issues/emissions here. I haven't come across the mixed use of Latin and Greek officina marks from the same issue before. I could be wrong since this is not my area.

Martin

Offline Heliodromus

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 07:19:24 am »
You see the same mixed Latin & Greek officina designators (P, S, gamma) used at Aquileia under Maximianus and Maxentius, and then by Constantine in 312-313 after he won the mint from Maxentius. Constantine then shut the mint until c. 317, and when reopened it switched to Latin only (P, S, T).

Ben

Offline Varangian

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 07:21:11 am »
From LRBC, p. 58, Rome:

The mint of Rome operated in six officinae down to the reign of Julian who reduced it to four.  It was raised to five once more about 380 and remained at that figure into Ostrogothic times.  The Greek numeral B denotes the second officina (as opposed to S which equals the sixth) down to c. 402 when it was replaced by the Roman S.  E always denotes the fifth officina.

It gives no explanation as to why they would have mixed the Greek and Latin officina designations.

RIC VIII goes into a little more detail and apparently solves the mystery...maridvnvm had the right idea.

The FEL TEMP REPARATIO coinage has the usual two stages.  At Rome however the issue of small AE2 continued to the end of the reign of Constans and into that of Magnentius.  The officinae of the mint were raised at the start of this coinage to six in number, from five, and their numbering changed:

P S T Q E
P B T Q E S

The need to adopt a Greek notation for the fifth officina in order to avoid confusion with the fourth was repeated in the creation of a sixth.  This would have been S in both Latin and Greek, and was therefore necessary to use B for the second.



Offline Varangian

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 06:43:38 pm »
Are there any theories as to why he would have adopted the bare bust at a time when it normally indicated junior status?

I wondered that as well.  I've spent my free time today rummaging through my paltry references but didn't come up with anything.

He definitely had a preference for an unadorned head, though.

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 10:07:39 pm »
Bastien considers Magnentius' bare head a sign of modesty, begun while he was still hoping to achieve recognition from Constantius II, then carried on at most mints even after that hope had evaporated.
Curtis Clay

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2005, 10:16:07 pm »
That certainly makes sense.  

Strange that he didn't take advantage of the propaganda venue and show himself equal (or superior) to Constantius on his coinage after all hope of a peaceful settlement had vanished...guy needed every advantage he could get...

Offline Heliodromus

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005, 08:17:48 am »
I've read catalog descriptions of Magentius suggesting that he wanted to distance himself from the arrogant Constans who'd he just overthrown, and so perhaps his initial rejection of the diadem had more to do with that, and being more in keeping with his own simple background as a soldier. It's also notable that he initially rejected Constantine's DN title and reverted to the older IMP CAES instead, which might also be seen as rejecting the regality of office and instead claiming power through military prowess, as would more endear him to his troops.

Later coins of Magnentius, such as this Liberator Reipvblicae medallion from Coin Archives, certainly show no sign of modesty, and if Magnentius craved the diadem but had initially rejected it out of false political modesty, then he presumably could have adopted it after such pretensions had been left behind.

It might also be argued that Magentius's adoption of the Constantinian Labarum (along with the biblical Alpha and Omega which Constans had briefly introduced) again points against modesty as the reason for his rejecting other trapping of Constantine such as the diadem and DN - he seemed to see himself as a Constantine replacement/successor, just with a different style of office.

Ben

Offline Varangian

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2005, 03:33:58 pm »
It still catches my eye on Roman coins with enough detail to see the riders mounted without stirrups.

The rider on my coin looks to be riding "British".  

 ;D

Offline PeterD

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005, 05:10:16 pm »
The rider on my coin looks to be riding "British".

What does that mean?  ???
Peter, London

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Offline Varangian

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 11:52:33 pm »
Different types of saddles.

Western saddles, usually encountered in the US, have longer stirrups than British saddles, so the British saddles have "pads" where the bent knees rest.  The different stance of the two saddles results in different riding "styles".

I'd only ridden Western (being originally from Texas) until I worked with the cavalry in El Salvador, who used British saddles.  Talk about a switch!

Offline slokind

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Re:Magnentius OTD.
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005, 01:57:28 am »
You know, I've never seen a LRB with a head so evocative of a living person as the bronze here of Magnentius.  Gold is, well, gold is gold, but the head on the gold is not nearly the work of art that the one on the bronze is.  Magnentius consequently becomes not a statistic and a date in Late Imperial history but a man, a true Mensch.
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