Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?  (Read 2415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheEmpireNeverEnded

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« on: April 23, 2012, 03:32:31 am »
My dilemma is thus:

I want to make a gallery.  For some of my coins, I have the dealer photographs.  They happen to be well lit, and thoughtfully positioned.  This evening I took it upon myself to photograph my coins.  My lamp casts a yellow light on all of my silvery-good denari.  Even so, the dealer photos seem to be at a lower resolution.  Some of my photos look alright, but some just don't bring out the same beauty that an experienced dealer can tease out of a coin (see Trajan).  I'm attaching a few examples of what I mean, and I'd be grateful for some input.  (Its hard to resist that silvery-white gleam of the dealer's photos!)

Offline TheEmpireNeverEnded

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 03:34:04 am »
additionally:

Offline TheEmpireNeverEnded

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 03:46:47 am »
Sorry if this seems to be going on forever (or is excessively picture-heavy), but I'm wondering whether it is reasonable to simply turn them black and white in photoshop?  It feels strange/wrong but the coins no longer look like the goldish-yellow abominations they become in my lamp light.  Admittedly, something is lost when I do this.

Offline Arminius

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2405
  • carpe diem
    • Arminius-Numismatics
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 04:21:01 am »
You may easily correct colouring defects by programs like Irfanview, Photoshop, various corresponding Microsoft software for managing pics, ...
Try to modify the colours mix. To much yellow usually means too much red and not enough (brightness or gamma) blue.
This is my selfmade-by-coulourmix aureus from a silver denarius;)



For the other question: You will only be experienced and be able to improve by taking your OWN pictures.

regards

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 04:31:21 am »
You may easily correct colouring defects by programs like Irfanview, Photoshop, various corresponding Microsoft software for managing pics, ...
Try to modify the colours mix. To much yellow usually means too much red and not enough (brightness or gamma) blue.

For the other question: You will only be experienced and be able to improve by taking your OWN pictures.

regards

I use the much simpler Photofiltre software for all my picture modifications. It's much less complex than Photoshop and is completely free. You can get it here: http://photofiltre.en.softonic.com/

Here is your Faustina after clicking a few Photofiltre buttons. OK its unsophisticated editing but its a quick repair job. Better than the original and better than the black and white. I nudged up the green and red, nudged down the yellow, reduced colour saturation a touch, increased exposure and colour-contrast a little. No sharpening. It took just a minute.

I think your photo is better than the dealer pic in this case, but even if they are only about the same its much nicer to use your own photos than someone else's. More ownership.

It ALWAYS helps to take your photos on a standard 18% grey-card background. The intent is that you use the grey card to set up the exposure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_card  but its simpler just to drop the coin on the card and photograph it there. It tends to help the colour balance a lot especially with cheap cameras. Domestic home-made alternatives don't work well - apparent grey surfaces are often a mix of colours - so spend a few dollars and buy a card.

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 04:42:39 am »
This is my selfmade-by-coulourmix aureus from a silver denarius:  ;)

I colorized a lot of aurei from 19th century out-of-copyright black and white pics for my website. I found that you needed 100% extra yellow but also 50% extra red to get the right colour. Without the red it just doesn't look gold!!!



Above pics RRC 494/13 Lepidus and RRC 519/1 Ahenobarbus aurei, adapted from very old photographic plates.

Offline areich

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 8706
    • Ancient Greek and Roman Coins, featuring BMC online and other books
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 04:47:24 am »
Just set the manual white balance before shooting and shoot with a neutral (white, grey, even black) background. Except for the white balance the pictures are good and certainly better than those dealer pictures.
Andreas Reich

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 04:52:53 am »
Just set the manual white balance before shooting and shoot with a neutral (white, grey, even black) background. Except for the white balance the pictures are good and certainly better than those dealer pictures.

This has been discussed on this forum before - not all cameras have "manual white balance" settings. Compact automatics will not have it and even some of the new large format compacts don't necessarily have it. Those who own cameras with such settings (or more to the point, those who understand how to use such settings) are probably already beyond taking yellow pictures. For those with simpler cameras, a neutral background is of course key (grey preferably) and hazy/cloudy outdoor light (morning light) without direct sun seems to provide decent results.

I've some 7,500 coin photos on my various website locations. Perhaps half were taken with a $200 compact automatic, the remainder with a $400 large format compact (Sony NEX). 90% were taken in natural light on a grey card background. Most are better than dealer photos, even the difficult bronzes. Don't be misled into thinking you need anything sophisticated regarding camera, lighting or setup. You don't. A basically decent camera makes life easier, but it can be simple and cheap. Just about every camera now has a macro function.

Offline TheEmpireNeverEnded

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 04:54:26 am »
Wow I didn't even think to mess with those settings.  They yielded amazing results!  I can essentially turn the coin back to the color it is in my hand just by messing with the saturation in photoshop.  This changes everything!  Check out the adjustments:

Offline areich

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 8706
    • Ancient Greek and Roman Coins, featuring BMC online and other books
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 06:44:12 am »
I think most brand name compact cameras have this setting, you just have to look in the manual. Alternatively you could see which of the presets comes closest and then make the final corrections with software.
Andreas Reich

Offline PtolemAE

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1944
  • PtolemyBronze.com
    • The PtolemAE Project - Ptolemaic Bronzes
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2012, 12:29:32 am »
My dilemma is thus:

I want to make a gallery.  For some of my coins, I have the dealer photographs.  They happen to be well lit, and thoughtfully positioned.  This evening I took it upon myself to photograph my coins.  My lamp casts a yellow light on all of my silvery-good denari.  Even so, the dealer photos seem to be at a lower resolution.  Some of my photos look alright, but some just don't bring out the same beauty that an experienced dealer can tease out of a coin (see Trajan).  I'm attaching a few examples of what I mean, and I'd be grateful for some input.  (Its hard to resist that silvery-white gleam of the dealer's photos!)

Try shooting against a white background and then you can use any simple graphics program to 'white balance' to that background and your coins should look fine.  If you raise the coin above the background and light from several directions you can eliminate most shadows.

You can set coins on a translucent coffee-can plastic lid raised up over the white background (below) by a CD pack cylinder, about a four-inch elevation.  Works nicely to almost completely eliminate shadows.  I also use several lights that can be adjusted a bit

Even so, in the end I almost always have to white-balance against a known white area using my graphics program (Polyview - free at polybytes.com).  The results are usually pretty good.

Low-resolution 'dealer' photos load quickly on the net but lack detail and can't be zoomed in very much. 

You'll learn by doing.

PtolemAE

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2012, 04:50:50 pm »
Play around with the menu on your camera; if you can set the white balance there it's the easiest way. If not, adjust the pics on the computer. Either way, you're 95% of the way there.
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 09:30:52 pm »
While it is, as pointed out above, simple to correct color in any of several programs, most, even the cheapest, cameras do a reasonable color balance when shooting in natural daylight.  If you shoot near a window or outside but not with direct sun falling on the coin (open shade or in a bright room) the color should be better.

4to2CentBCphilia

  • Guest
Re: Should I use the dealer photos, or my amateur effort?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 06:55:41 pm »
This topic inspired me to try some natural light photography, outdoors on a partially cloudy day (6pm EST today).

These are the results. The medal looks about as close to in-hand as I could get it. But even between exposures and angles, the medals appearance changed dramatically in the photos. This one was my favorite.

Vastly different than the dealer photo, yet far more realistic.

If you want to see a much larger , high res photo, you need to go to the link and then click on the photo. The size is limited in the post to 800 width I guess.


BTW It is a Jacobite medal.

Handheld Nikon D80 1/80 sec F5.6 ASA 100 .
AF-S Nikkor 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 VR lens.
Macro setting.
Used Microsoft Office Picture Manager to auto correct.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-80714




BR

Mark

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity