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Author Topic: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!  (Read 76564 times)

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Offline mike1987

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2011, 02:09:43 pm »
This sestertius from Philippus I has a strange reverse legend.

It should be: TRANQUILLITAS AUGG
Mine is: TIINQUILLITAS AUGG (the first G is also a bit strange).

Offline Mat

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #101 on: June 19, 2011, 02:17:48 pm »
I had purchased a Vrbs Roma sometime ago just cause I liked it and the price and when I posted it on another forum, Doug pointed out a rotated R on the reverse. Not sure if it's a known type or not. I thought it make it pretty cool once he noticed it.

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Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #102 on: June 19, 2011, 02:57:56 pm »
One of my new Provincials:

Moesia inferior, Markianopolis, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
AE 27, 12.74g, 27.41mm, 195°
struck under governor Julius Faustinianus
obv. AV KL CEPTI - CEVHROC P
        Bust, draped and cuirassed, laureate, r.
rev. V I FAVCTINIANOV MARAKIANOPOLI(sic!) / TWN
       Homonoia, in long garment and mantle, wearing kalathos, holding in l. arm cornucopiae and in
       outstretched r. hand patera
ref. a) not in AMNG:
           cf. AMNG I/1, 569
       b) not in Varbanov (engl.):
           cf. #797 (= AMNG 569)
       c) not in Hristova/Jekov:
           rev. No. 6.14.36.1 var. (different legend break, without legend error)
           obv. f.e. No. 6.14.7.8 (Apollo, same die)
rare, about VF, nice blue-green patina
from Forum Ancient Coins, thanks!

Interesting legend error on rev.

Best regards

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2011, 02:57:26 pm »
One of my new Provincials:

Moesia inferior, Markianopolis, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
AE 27, 12.74g, 27.41mm, 195°
struck under governor Julius Faustinianus
obv. AV KL CEPTI - CEVHROC P
        Bust, draped and cuirassed, laureate, r.
rev. V I FAVCTINIANOV MARAKIANOPOLI(sic!) / TWN
       Homonoia, in long garment and mantle, wearing kalathos, holding in l. arm cornucopiae and in
       outstretched r. hand patera
ref. a) not in AMNG:
           cf. AMNG I/1, 569
       b) not in Varbanov (engl.):
           cf. #797 (= AMNG 569)
       c) not in Hristova/Jekov:
           rev. No. 6.14.36.1 var. (different legend break, without legend error)
           obv. f.e. No. 6.14.7.8 (Apollo, same die)
rare, about VF, nice blue-green patina
from Forum Ancient Coins, thanks!

Interesting legend error on rev.

Best regards


 MARAKIANOPO :Greek_Iota: :Greek_Lambda:(sic!)

Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #104 on: June 20, 2011, 03:00:42 pm »
Why that?

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2011, 03:03:32 pm »
The post was corrected to LI while the coin reads IL.



The reverse of this Salonina reads ROMAE ATERNAE where AETERNAE is expected.  

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2011, 03:05:08 pm »
My error, I read it wrong upside down.  Sorry.



The reverse of this Salonina reads ROMAE ATERNAE where AETERNAE is expected.  

Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2011, 03:13:57 pm »
Thanks. I confess I was a bit confused.

Jochen

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #108 on: July 02, 2011, 02:37:37 pm »
My new shot: Trebonianus Gallus anto from Antiochia with 2 huge errors on reverse legend: ADVNTVS AVS (instead of ADVENTVS AVG):

Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #109 on: July 02, 2011, 03:40:08 pm »
Nice find! But it was a bad time for Rome.

Jochen

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #110 on: July 02, 2011, 04:59:46 pm »
My new shot: Trebonianus Gallus anto from Antiochia with 2 huge errors on reverse legend: ADVNTVS AVS (instead of ADVENTVS AVG):

ADVNTVS certainly makes the grade here but I am unwilling to accept as an error an Eastern coin with AVS.  There were those of us over the last couple thousand years that believed a proper abbreviation ends with the last letter of the larger word so  AVgustuS might be intentional if not the way the home office back in Rome might have done it.

I also know that some of you think I'm being difficult when I ask which of these coins is unlisted in the standard references RIC and BMC

RIC 362 and BMC 338 were listed based on the coin in the British Museum collection (Pl. 15. 9.) which is short legend on the right reverse.  The editors assumed the coin ended in AVG but the coin is a die duplicate of the coin below which reads AVS. 


Such an error is quite understandable when dealing with part legend coins but the coin below is an exact match for the listing ending in AVG so it turns out that the error actually listed a coin but now the one they had in hand.


Going back a bit, Cohen listed the coin with AVG ending as number 738 quoting as source "Wiczav" which is not known to me (anyone have or know of this?).  I do not know if this pre-1880's listing was photo or line drawing illustrated and I don't know which of the two was the source of Cohen/i]Wiczav[/i] quote.   I did find references to plates in a listing of a work by that name on Hellenistic coins so the possibility exists that the question is answered on one of those compilations of out of print coin books CD's which I don't own. 

A lot of new things have cropped up in the centuries since some of our numismatic works were fresh.  Whether some of them are errors or just different is not always clear to me.  What are we to assume when an old, unillustrated listing is found but we have no coin that matches it.  Was the coin lost or was the listing in error?  I hope future editions of comprehensive books will continue to list things no longer confirmable but it would be nice if they were so marked rather than just quoted with authority.




Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #111 on: July 03, 2011, 04:45:47 am »

ADVNTVS certainly makes the grade here but I am unwilling to accept as an error an Eastern coin with AVS.  There were those of us over the last couple thousand years that believed a proper abbreviation ends with the last letter of the larger word so  AVgustuS might be intentional if not the way the home office back in Rome might have done it.


Dear Doug,

Thanks for your comment. I didn't find AVS example in Treb. Gallus coinage. Not found on Richard Beale's site too:
http://sonic.net/~rbeale/mysite/Gallus%20Antioch%20First%20and%20Second%20Issue.htm
http://sonic.net/~rbeale/mysite/Gallus%20Antioch%20Third%20Issue.htm

Here is the information about Wiczay (at end with 'y' not 'v') and his book on Google books:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Wiczay

Tibsi

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #112 on: July 03, 2011, 07:38:51 am »

Here is the information about Wiczay (at end with 'y' not 'v') and his book on Google books:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Wiczay

Tibsi
Thank you very much.  Unfortunately the book covers Provincials so the coin in question did not make the list.  However knowing that the collection was dispersed but Cohen did not code it as being in one of the major collections (B, F, V) opens the possibility that the coin did not come to the British Museum until after Cohen or that it is a different one (even mine).  This is one of my more treasured coins since it is ex Bickford-Smith (a friend).  I have no idea where he got it. 

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #113 on: July 03, 2011, 08:53:27 am »
The AVS reverse die links the A.D. 193 issue with the AVG II C issue. I won't show my 193 example as it doesn't add anything (same die pair) and is in pitiful condition compared to Doug's lovely example. I will illustrate my II C example though.



Regards,
Martin

Offline thimar11

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2011, 01:52:23 pm »

ADVNTVS certainly makes the grade here but I am unwilling to accept as an error an Eastern coin with AVS.  There were those of us over the last couple thousand years that believed a proper abbreviation ends with the last letter of the larger word so  AVgustuS might be intentional if not the way the home office back in Rome might have done it.


As Tibsi points out, no other coins ending in AVS are known for Trebonianus Gallus, and the normal type is ADVENTVS AVG, so the coin with reverse ADVNTVS AVS is more likely a mix between legend ADVENTVS AVG and PAX AVGVS... And the fact that there is a 2nd error in the same legend goes in that direction in my opinion.
Antoninianii from Antioch under the reign of Philip the Arab :
http://marchal.thibaut.free.fr/e_index.htm (English & French)

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2011, 05:10:18 pm »
The AVS reverse die links the A.D. 193 issue with the AVG II C issue. I won't show my 193 example as it doesn't add anything (same die pair) and is in pitiful condition compared to Doug's lovely example. I will illustrate my II C example though.

Regards,
Martin

What this does bring up as a question is which came first.   We assume the obverse legend ending AVG to be earliest and see the two reverses both used with the same obverse die.  The AVS reverse is used with what is considered to be a later obverse ending IIC.  Later still the type (but not the same die) ending AVG appears with a COS I die.  This thread covers errors but errors can be random or patterened  based on a difference of expectations or culture.   For example the COS I obverse die here uses PEPT for PERT since a Greek language die cutter had trouble with the 'foreign' letter R.  My point or question here is whether the S ending was an error of what that one cutter believed to be the correct abbreviation for Augustus.  We will never know.   



It gets worse.  I also believe that this COS I obverse die started reading CEP CEV but had the two Greek form C letters corrected to Latin S.  All this was the subject of an old page of mine:
http://dougsmith.ancients.info/feac6.html


A similar error based on language is this Provincial is shown on this Latin language Colonial of Deultum



The cutter forgot he was working in Latin where the correct title would be Augusta and abbreviated the Greek word Sebasta using Latin letters (SEB not CEB as it would have been in Greek).  Coins of Deultum come both ways but it is not usually considered worthy of note by sellers: 
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=159752
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=132077

What makes ancient coins interesting is that they are not perfect little clones of a master hub.  This continuing thread has shown that quite well.   

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2011, 12:13:03 pm »
here is an extremely rare error in Roman coinage, 2 letter missing on the reverse, usually some coins can be wrong or only 1 missing letter

Picture are picture of the seller, I'm still waiting for the coin...

IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from behind
LIBERATAS(must be LIBERALITAS) AVG III Liberalitas standing left holding abacus in left hand and 1 single cornucopia in right hand


Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #117 on: July 12, 2011, 12:43:25 pm »
Great shot! I was bid for this coin on eBay but the seller cancel it since he sold it directly for $100. This was unfair action. Then he offered it to me for $110 but I refused...

Here is an example in this lot with an another legend error: ROMAE AETERNE (without pictures):
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=22364

Please make a better picture about it!

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2011, 01:06:46 pm »
Another specimen with LIBERATAS, same rev. die: Gemini IV, 2008, G. His Coll., lot 460, first coin.

The second coin in the same lot was the ROMAE AETERNE error Tibsi refers to, here with illustration, reportedly the same coin as the unillustrated Trau Sale lot 2644, which is cited in RIC 70 note.
Curtis Clay

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #119 on: July 12, 2011, 01:21:44 pm »
thanks for this answer dear Tibsi, the seller when he saw the error on reverse asked to some others dealer what can be the worth of this coin, and he changed the price from $100 to $200... but I'm happy to get it even if price is quite expensive...

The ROMAE AETERNE is aviable in picture on wildwinds (RIC 70 note) and here is a picture of my own specimen (from different reverse die)

Did you won the overstrucked antiochene radiate?


Thanks both for remember me the existence of the LIBERATAS in the His collection, I did completely forget it...

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #120 on: July 24, 2011, 08:11:44 am »
Vetranio centenionalis

Unknown mintmark: •TS• (instead of •TSA•, •TSB• or •TS :Greek_Delta:

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2011, 12:00:31 am »
Tibsi - its been tooled and altered. Sorry!

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Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2011, 01:17:59 am »
I don't see any modification.

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #123 on: July 26, 2011, 10:53:08 am »
I don't see any modification.

Sorry friend, but I do not see how it could be missed! :(
The lettering has been "enhanced" and the fields smoothed.
If this was sold to you as genuine and unaltered - get a refund!

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Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #124 on: July 26, 2011, 02:25:45 pm »
I bought it as geniue. Here is the seller's picture.

 

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