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Author Topic: Lead Coin or Seal?  (Read 707 times)

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ed3719

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Lead Coin or Seal?
« on: August 17, 2008, 11:01:26 am »
Greetings Everyone,

I recently came into possession of a peculiar lead coin or seal in a collection of provincials.  On the obverse(?) is a bust facing left surrounded by either dots, stars, or crude letters.  The reverse, however, reminds me of more modern coins.  There is a crest with a lion and bull on each side and another lion atop a crown.  Any help you can give is greatly appreciated.

Best,
Edward

Offline *Alex

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 11:05:47 am »
Hi Edward,

The reverse appears to be a British Army General Services Button. I have attached a (regretfully small) picture of such a button below. I don't know about the obverse, but it would seem your item is fairly modern.

Alex.


ed3719

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 12:26:43 pm »
Thank you Alex!

I had a suspicion that it was relatively modern, and the button looks dead-on.  The obverse seems strange however.  I'm also puzzled by the absence of any hook or ring for the button to attach to fabric.  I've had a few 19th century British service buttons and they all had the name of the factory/company that produced them.  Perhaps it is an Arab copy?  It's all a mystery to me.

Best,
Edward

Offline *Alex

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 02:48:45 pm »
I'm also puzzled by the absence of any hook or ring for the button to attach to fabric.  I've had a few 19th century British service buttons and they all had the name of the factory/company that produced them.

I don't think you have the actual button, I think the button was probably just used to make one side of the mould your item is cast from.

Regards,

Alex.

ed3719

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 05:03:05 pm »
Hi Alex,

Thanks for your reply.  The process you suggest seems plausible.  Now, the only question to ask is "why?"  Is it a medal, a token, a password token for some unknown sect of cultists or British gentleman's club, used for skipping across water, etc.?

Best,
Edward

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 05:34:07 pm »
*
 
     Maybe it could be a little piece of ‘trench art?’
  A little trinket / memento – product of trench or camp boredom?
 
   Surely it must be datable by the button-design?
  Alex has said – “..fairly modern:” and Edward mentions “..19th century British service buttons.”
  Any idea for dating of this button-design?
 
   Best regards,
   Tia
 
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Offline *Alex

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 05:52:00 pm »
Surely it must be datable by the button-design?
  Alex has said – “..fairly modern:” and Edward mentions “..19th century British service buttons.”
  Any idea for dating of this button-design?

Judging by the size and shape of the device being held by the lion and unicorn, the button would date to the time of World War I or II. Sorry, I can't be any more precise than that.

Alex.

ed3719

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 07:34:02 pm »
Hi Tia and Alex,

Thanks for your replies.  The earliest the design could be is late Victorian, but because the piece was found in Lebanon I am thinking that it belongs to WWI era.  Here is one central problem: the buttons were made by pressing two flans together and so a seam can be easily seen between the two pieces.  And again, no hint of a connecting agent.  I like the idea of trench art, kind of like a hobo nickle, but the artist(s) on one side show nice talent, and on the other very crude.  Maybe the obverse was made by a collector of ancient coins, since it looks like a bearded bust.  It might also be a bust of one of the sheykhs, but that is just speculation.  I'm sure there is some interesting story connected to it.

Best,
Edward

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Lead Coin or Seal?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2008, 09:07:03 pm »
*
 
     Thanks Alex and Edward.
  It’s very interesting.  Too bad the little rascal can’t speak!
  It is surely a bust in crude style.  I have some impression also of letters at the very bottom(?), but can’t make anything out of them if they are.
 
  As Alex has posited – a “.. button was probably just used to make one side of the mould your item is cast from,” if the other was done ‘free-style’ by hand – then I guess the discrepancy in artistic styles/skill shouldn’t seem so peculiar.
 
  Have you tried shaking it under a bright light and demanding an answer?
  ( See how I am?  When the scholarly fails, think like a Centurion ).
 
  It is a curious little thing, and I’ll wager you’re dead-right – there is some wonderfully interesting little story behind it…
 
   Best regards,
   Tia
 
*
 
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