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Author Topic: Suspicious Maximus siliqua  (Read 2079 times)

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Offline Luuk S

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Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« on: June 18, 2022, 06:58:53 am »
Hi all

Recently i purchased this siliqua from ebay, but I now have some serious doubts about this coin.
It is not from a dealer on the NFSL list and he appears to sell some definitely genuine ancient coins.
Apart from the fact that this coin was sold via ebay (if genuine it would be really valuable coin and sold via auction houses), i have the following issues:

- the lettering is too clear and doesn't show flowlines
- very little patina
- Maximus isn't wearing a beard, which all other specimens do have.
- The portrait style is more of the Constantinian or Valentinian dynasty, not 5th century
- The reverse legend reads VICTOR A - AAVGGG, whereas all genuine specimens i found read VICTOR - AAAVGGG
- The letters 'A' are all with crossbar, whereas genuine Maximus coins generally show a /\ instead
- The coin looks 'too nice', all Maximus siliquas generally look quite miserable

However, the flan cracks are definitelly real, which practically none of the fake siliquas in the fake coin report have. The coin is thus a struck coin and for me, this was the convincing argument at the moment of buying, however i didnt properly research the details of Maximus coins, which are discussed above.
In conclusion, i think it is a well-made fake. Please let me now what you think.

Obverse: DN MAXIM-VS PF AVG
Reverse: VICTOR A - AAVGGG, SMBA in exergue
Weight: 1.03 g
Axis: 0500 h

gr Luuk

Offline PeterD

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2022, 07:46:42 am »
I think you have the wrong Maximus there. This is a siliqua of Magnus Maximus (383-388)
The reverse inscription should be VICTORI-A AVGG
I can't see anything wrong with it, but I am not an expert.
Peter, London

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Offline Luuk S

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2022, 08:50:52 am »
While the portrait style would certainly fit for Magnus Maximus, i'm pretty sure its no coin of him.
All siliquas I found of Magnus Maximus have 'DN MAG MAXIMVS PF AVG' on the obverse.
Additionally, no reverse with 'VICTOR A AAVGGG' or SMBA as a mintmark have been used by Magnus Maximus as far as i know.

gr Luuk

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2022, 09:11:12 am »

Offline PeterD

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 10:13:21 am »
Yes, I think Pekka is correct. The three "C"s at the end of the reverse inscription should have alerted me as I have one of these myself. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia/coins/r7/r26020.htm
So Maximus of Barcelona (or Spain), not Magnus Maximus.
Scarce and valuable coins.
Peter, London

Historia: A collection of coins with their historical context https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 10:25:18 am »
It is a bad Bulgarian fake from modern dies!
I was the underbidder and still try to get another fake from this artist/forger, I was so far only able to get fake legionary denar from him.
The seller has really expensive and rare coins from different emperors and all share the same style and fabric, they are all modern had cut die fake from a talented Bulgarian artist not sure if this is qualifying him as nfs because we do not know if he knows that they are fake or not but never the less his name is demetrius7107.
I will post some of his fake and fakes from same artist if they were sold by other dealers, but I will mention form whom, they were sold.
The Ephesos stater is a bad transfer die fake, with wrongly recut details, an Englich auction house was offering some of these fakes, too.
Other auction houses and dealers have fortunately not offered these Ephesos stater transfer die fakes so far.
And he has a small number of cheap but authentic coins.
I do not know if he knows that his expensive coins are fake or not and if he intentionally mix the cheap authentic ones in to make the fake look more reliable if they are offered together with authentic coin, or if the seller got fooled himself buy the one from whom he is buying from.

MOre of his fakes same artist/forger

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325206045767?hash=item4bb7ca7447:g:8bAAAOSwixtij-XI

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325206090845?hash=item4bb7cb245d:g:sTwAAOSw6l5ij-~V

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325206067435?hash=item4bb7cac8eb:g:no4AAOSw5-Fij-kL

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325002637293?hash=item4babaaafed:g:wecAAOSwPA5h5hKA

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325218812461?hash=item4bb88d422d:g:LmEAAOSwqNlinIWP

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325226049345?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325226039854?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325206034996?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I bought this one, legionary denar Marc Anthony

https://www.ebay.de/itm/325206024014?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2022, 10:40:44 am »

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2022, 10:47:10 am »
Otho, one offered by British auction house but withdrawn, one sold by Lanz and one by Demetrius7107

Another on sold by Demetrius7107, as said in later post he has from rare coins often die matches and they are from same die state which is not normal

https://www.coryssa.org/2300392/subcategory_id/138/page/0/search_seller/on/keywords/Demetrius7107/search2/yes/date_to/2022-06-18/use_checkboxes/0/period/all/period/all/

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2022, 10:49:04 am »
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2022, 10:51:37 am »
one sold by Lanz and one by Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2022, 10:54:17 am »
I will repost the Lnaz fakes, they are from same artist and have same style so I think they belong here, we had some here before in a thread.
And then more from Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2022, 10:55:13 am »
one more from Lanz and same dies one from Demetrius7107

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 10:56:13 am »
Some of them have modern "touch", but some could be very deceptive. Doesn't this denarius of Marcus Antonius belong to a group of false denarii of this type that was already analyzed some time ago?
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2022, 11:01:55 am »
Some of them have modern "touch", but some could be very deceptive. Doesn't this denarius of Marcus Antonius belong to a group of false denarii of this type that was already analyzed some time ago?

They are from differnet dies and have different style and planchets, I do not think that they are related
Both ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2022, 11:03:52 am »

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2022, 11:06:12 am »
recut transfer die fakes, top Demetrius7107, and below British auction house that has offered but withdrawn Otho

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2022, 11:07:47 am »
ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2022, 11:14:45 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2022, 11:20:58 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2022, 11:21:43 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2022, 11:24:23 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2022, 11:30:24 am »

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2022, 11:32:03 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2022, 11:32:36 am »
More ex Demetrius7107

Offline Din X

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Re: Suspicious Maximus siliqua
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2022, 11:33:17 am »

 

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