Numismatic and History Discussions > Greek Coins

Greek AE Zeus/Eagle "soteru"

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SC:
Looks like there were (at least) two countermarks used on this type.  A radiate head, cut-off at the neck, possibly of Helios.  And a bust wearing a petasos, possibly Hermes.  Mine definitely has rays and is not just streaks in the dirt or something.  Also one is a head, the other a bust.

My Howgego, which ironically is Ex Libris Georges Le Rider, notes that the best survey of countermarks on Greek coins of the classical and Hellenistic period is G. Le Rider, "Contremarques et surfrappes dans l'antiquité grecque", in Numismatique antique, problèmes et méthodes, Nancy-Louvain, 1975, pp. 27-56. 

I don't have the article.

SC

Mark Fox:
Dear Shawn and Board,

Thank you for the clarifications and the reference to the article!  It sounds very useful indeed!  It also appears to have been reprinted in another volume:

https://www.academia.edu/2437014/G._LE_RIDER_Etudes_d_histoire_mon%C3%A9taire_et_financi%C3%A8re_du_monde_grec._Ecrits_1958-1998_Athens_1999_3_vol._1443_p._edited_by_Eleni_Papaefthymiou_Fran%C3%A7ois_de_Callata%C3%BF_and_Fran%C3%A7ois_Queyrel_

I will see if I can dig up a copy somehow and share it with you and Altamura, if either of you are interested.

Ugh!  I am burying myself with too much to do this week.  I feel it already... 


Best regards,
 
Mark Fox
Michigan   

Steve Moulding:
Mark, thank you very much for your detailed reply late last night! Going forward, I will keep a passive lookout for these in the older materials I have on hand. Thanks to everyone for what's been a very interesting topic and I've learned a lot on this trip outside Italy/Sicily. Thank you all again.

Steve

Altamura:

--- Quote from: otlichnik on November 21, 2021, 10:13:47 am ---... I ran the German discussion thread through Google translate. ...
--- End quote ---
I hope the result was always understandable, my writing style in German is perhaps sometimes a bit nested :).
(Meanwhile I prefer https://www.deepl.com/translator . They don't have as much languages as Google, but for Englisch and German they are both prepared quite well :).)


--- Quote from: otlichnik on November 21, 2021, 10:13:47 am ---... Seems the consensus is that these are a temple issue coinage, from Asia Minor, during the Hellenistic era, possibly 2nd to early 1st century BC.  But ideas as to where exactly they come from range from Klazomenai in Ionia, though Lydia and Phrygia, to Cilicia. ...
--- End quote ---
The minting places mentioned here just have been in discussion because they had produced coins with a deity's name as legend. At the end we had no idea where exactly the ΔΙΟΣ ΣΩΤΗΡΟΣ had been minted :(.


--- Quote from: Mark Fox on November 21, 2021, 05:26:58 pm ---...  However, are we certain that the countermark is of the head of Helios?  Attached are my two countermarked examples of the large denomination ...  The head in the other countermark looks very much like Hermes to me, ...
--- End quote ---
That's really a Hermes, so we have a second type of countermark on these coins :).


--- Quote from: Mark Fox on November 21, 2021, 05:26:58 pm ---... Not all the borders on these coins (as a group) are filleted.  Some are also apparently beaded. 
--- End quote ---
Interesting, I never have seen these. Do we have more examples of coinages with this kind of "mixed borders"?


--- Quote from: Mark Fox on November 21, 2021, 05:26:58 pm ---... I am not too familiar about the details of temple coins in the current context, but the fact that some are countermarked with different marks seems to imply that they were being treated more or less as normal coins. ...
--- End quote ---
Yes, it seems that they have been.
See about these coinages in general
Selene Psoma, "Panegyris coinages", American Journal of Numismatics, 2008, vol. 20, pp. 227-255: https://www.academia.edu/15313243/Panegyris_Coinages_AJN_20_2008_227_255
Selene Psoma, "Profitable Networks: Coinages, Panegyris and Dionysiac Artists", Mediterranean Historical Review, 2007, vol. 22, no. 2, pp. 237-255
Johannes Nollé, ""Panegyris Coinages" - Eine moderne Geisterprägung", Chiron 44, 2014, pp. 285-323


--- Quote from: otlichnik on November 21, 2021, 09:12:24 pm ---... the best survey of countermarks on Greek coins of the classical and Hellenistic period is G. Le Rider, "Contremarques et surfrappes dans l'antiquité grecque" ...
--- End quote ---
Some years ago I had a look into it at the library and did not scan it, being a hint that it does not contain many examples of countermarks but is more a general discussion of the phenomenon (otherwise I would have made a scan :)).

Regards

Altamura

PtolemAE:

--- Quote from: Akropolis on November 20, 2021, 08:17:29 pm ---Trouble is, there were several/a few of the Ptolemys that assumed the title of Soter.

--- End quote ---

and, afaik, none like this.
doesn't look like any Ptolemaic coin I have seen or studied.


PtolemAE

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