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Author Topic: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars  (Read 143 times)

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Offline OldMoney

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Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« on: September 16, 2022, 12:17:14 pm »
I have a client who has asked me to assist with some of his coins, and among them is
this rather interesting piece, which appears to be an Alexius III similar to Sear 2012
but with two stars between the figures on the reverse.

It appears to be: DOC Var. C(a) 3f.1

The only sale record I have seen, so far, is a single auction record via acsearch, and
another where the stars were not noted.

Is this as rare as it seems to be in the sales records, or "just another variety"?

What do you think?

- Walter
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Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2022, 05:38:06 pm »
You are going down a Rabbit hole Walter. I have not seen a star variation but with this example you do not know if it is official or an imitation. Their seems to be so many varieties for the Alexius III trachea , that I doubt if anyone will get a complete picture.  I have been on the hunt for a true SBCV-2013 , no luck yet.

Here is an article Ross wrote and if you go down to the bottom you will see the basics on attributing official and Imitations. Its a very good read.

 https://glebecoins.org/paleos/Articles/The_Bulgarian___Latin_Imitativ/the_bulgarian___latin_imitativ.html

Simon


 
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2022, 06:14:40 pm »
Here is a cleaner strike and a new one for me.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2022, 03:34:54 am »
There is a variant with two stars; this is type C (a). And this is not a Balkan imitation, and even more so, not crusaders. But the type is scarce, it's true.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2022, 03:36:01 am »
Here another one:

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2022, 03:38:34 am »
Here is the diagram in full:

Offline Obryzum

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2022, 04:49:02 am »
Those are some great diagrams.  They look just like the figures on the coins.

Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2022, 07:07:44 am »
There is a variant with two stars; this is type C (a). And this is not a Balkan imitation, and even more so, not crusaders. But the type is scarce, it's true.

Love the line drawings. What is the book please or this from your own work? If it is a book  How many variants of the series are listed? ( Including Faithful copies and Latin imitations.) Also is the above star variant have a reference number?

One last question.

Is this coin listed anywhere? seems to be completely silver. No bubbling at all so the silvering does not appear to be modern, Info from reputable auction house but Sear number was off one.

Alexius III Angelus-Comnenus BI Aspron Trachy. Constantinople, AD 1195-1197. [+KЄPO] HΘЄI, Facing bust of Christ Emmanuel; [IC]-XC across upper fields / Blundered legend, Alexius and St. Constantine standing facing, each holding labarum and a globus cruciger between them. DOC 3d; Sear 2011. 4.05g, 25mm, 6h.

Near Extremely Fine.

From the Vitangelo Collection, collector's tickets included.  (This coin should have been attributed SBCV-2012)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2022, 05:15:26 pm »
In the 60s of the last century, the famous numismatist Michael Handy gained access to a whole series of hoards (more than 19) of Byzantine bilon tracheas of the 12th century, found at different times in the Balkans, mainly in Bulgaria.  Having studied thousands of scyphtes, Hendy noted a number of small, but stable differences in the design of the main types of bilon trachea, starting with the metropolitain asprons of the second type, dating back to the years of the reign of John II Komnenus ( Sear 1944) and up to the last, minted before the catastrophe of 1204, low-grade asprons of Alexius III.

  The special marks discovered by Hendy on the asprons of the Komnenos dynasty and also Isaac II Angelos were considered a little earlier, but now I want to draw your attention to similar features of the asprons of Alexei III Angelos (1195-1203), the last  of the Byzantine emperors, who massively minted a bilon scyphate coin on the eve of the catastrophe 1204.

  A clearly noticeable sharp drop in the weight and quality of execution of a small scyphate coin, which began under Isaac II, continued under Alexius III Angelus.  It was at this time that the neatly clipping of a higher quality early coin began in order to bring it into line with the value of a smaller and lower quality new one.
  Each of the groups (A, B, C and D) of the bilon (and practically, already copper) tracheas of Alexius III has 2-3 varieties, indicated by a small letter in brackets.  To Michael Handy's classification, I have added a couple of new subspecies that occur repeatedly and therefore deserve attention. A visual diagram was made by me a couple of years ago.

Offline glebe

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2022, 07:04:24 pm »
The 2 stars type of Alexius III is listed as Type 8.2d1 in Stefan Joppich's 2005 book
"Petzlaff Vol. 1 Die Billon-Skyphaten der Komnenen und Angeloi 1092-1204 Eine Bestimmungshilfe", which covers the official billon trachies of the period.

Joppich's second book, "Petzlaff Vol. 2 Die bulgarischen und venezianischen Billon-Skyphaten wahrend der "Lateinischen Besetzung" von Byzanz 1204-1261 Eine Bestimmungshilfe" covers the "Bulgarian" and Latin imitative types down to Hendy Types W, X and Y.

Ross G.



Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius III Sear 2012 - with stars
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2022, 04:22:15 am »
As soon as I read Byzantofil post with the wonderful line drawings I descided to double check my examples, the first one I revisited was a hit. It was from an old collection formed in the 1980's. It had several Alexius III examples and the first one I looked at had the stars that I had not noticed before. I just thought it was a bad strike. On a closer look it is rather clear.

So here is another example.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

 

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