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Author Topic: Yehud coins rarity  (Read 847 times)

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Offline Joel W2

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Yehud coins rarity
« on: February 02, 2023, 09:03:46 pm »
I recently took an interest in the series of coins from the Yehud period of time. However, in researching the coins, there are articles (“The Times of Israel” article, specifically) that doesn’t make sense to me. A couple of quotes:

“ Three extremely rare Jewish-minted coins dating from the 4th century BCE were recently discovered by the Temple Mount Sifting Project, doubling the number unearthed in ancient Jerusalem to date. These coins are among the earliest testaments to Jewish minting in the Land of Israel.

Only three were clearly identified as these silver Yehud coins minted in Jerusalem by Jews during the Persian era, as well as two others which are suspected to be of the same class.

All told, in Israel to date there are 193 archaeologically provenanced coins which were minted locally throughout the Holy Land during the Persian era. Among them are only 51 Yehud coins.”

Is the article wrong about the rarity of these coins?  They seem to state that only dozens have been found.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 09:20:40 pm »
Welcome to Forum.

Reporters always have a way of making things seem more spectacular than they are ;)

The Yehud coins were minted by the Persians for use in Judeae, hence the owl and Athena.   Maybe mine is one of the 51!

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=173431

Offline Joel W2

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2023, 10:22:40 pm »
Thank you for the welcome! Long time lurker! Yeah, I read that article and started to question my sanity…

Beautiful coin.

Mine’s attached:

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2023, 11:18:37 pm »
Nice!

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 11:40:55 am »
As Jay GT4 says, the news reports usually give exciting information that lacks full numismatic context. But the following is an interesting statement well worth trying to understand:

Quote
All told, in Israel to date there are 193 archaeologically provenanced coins which were minted locally throughout the Holy Land during the Persian era.

The key phrase is "archaeologically provenanced" coins. Judaean/Samarian coins aren't my specialty, but I've read many of the recent references trying to understand the scholarship surrounding one of my own coins (gallery [LINK]), a mid-4th cent. BCE Samarian Obol (which I believe counts as "Persian era" in Judaea [?], or at least a close neighbor):



That coin would NOT count coin among the 193 archaeologically provenanced coins -- even though it was part of an important hoard (Samaria Hoard, before 1990) published by a Director and Chief Curator at Israel Museum in Jerusalem, and member of the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), Ya'akhov Meshorer (1935-2004), along with Shraga Qedar (1933-2015), who worked more as a commercial numismatist.

Just like anywhere, coins from secured academic archaeological excavations are much rarer than coins of uncertain origin, unprovenanced finds, and/or hoards with only approximate find data. This one was not excavated by archaeologists, so we don't know exactly when or where it was found, and can't be 100% certain of the hoard's contents or context.

The number of coins discovered from this era and region have really exploded since the 1990s, but still only a few excavation finds are documented. There are a few "corpuses" of known specimens, which surely count many hundreds or more. Wyssman (2019) is the most comprehensive I know (Vielfältig Geprägt: Das Spätperserzeitliche Samaria und Seine Münzbilder). (My coin above is cited on p. 296 as MQ187.i -- in 1991 it was the only known specimen, by 2019 there were at least 11!) It was open source from ZORA (Zurich Open Repository and Archive), but the site doesn't seem to be loading: https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/181879 (I have Wyssman 2019 as PDF, downloaded legally [so it appeared, but if ZORA remains down it'll be hard to double-check], for anyone who wants it.)

I felt comfortable buying that coin, given that it was published by Meshorer, but I've also got another early coin from the region (Philistia/Palestine/Gaza?) -- an Athens type Hemiobol -- for which I sadly have no collection / find history beyond Agora Auctions 18 in 2014 [LINK] (but still searching!):

“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

Galleries https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=27154

Offline Joel W2

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2023, 07:19:06 pm »
Thank you, Curtis, for your insight. Very interesting coin you presented!

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2023, 08:13:51 pm »
Great coin and provenance Curtis!  Mine came with an export permit, so all good on that front.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2023, 10:43:29 pm »
Judaea (Yehudah), Ptolemaic Rule, Ptolemy II Philadelphos, 285 - 246 B.C.
JD99501. Silver 1/4 drachm, Hendin 6088 (RRR); Lorber CPE 710; Gitler-Lorber II Group 7, 15; Deutsch Unrecorded 4; Meshorer TJC -; Mildenberg Yehud -, gVF, toned, deposits, obv. off center, edge splits, Jerusalem mint, weight 0.876g, maximum diameter 10.4mm, die axis 315o, probably 272 - 261/0 B.C.; obverse diademed head of Ptolemy I right; reverse eagle standing half left on thunderbolt, wings open, head left, Aramaic, Aramaic (YHDH) on left, read right to left (upward); ex CNG auction 117 (19-20 May 2001), lot 328 (listed as a quarter ma'ah in error); $19000.00

This is apparently only the second known specimen of this type. All the references given describe the same coin and the plates share photos of a single specimen from the S. Moussaeiff Collection. This coin was struck with the same obverse die but it appears to be from a different reverse die. See the Moussaeiff Collection coin here.

 See the Greek Domination of Judaea page in the FORVM Shop.

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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2023, 10:56:29 pm »
Persian Empire, Philistia (Gaza or Samaria), c. 375 - 333 B.C., Imitative of Athens
GS110013. Silver obol, cf. Samaria Hoard pls. 45 - 50, SH269 ff.; Gitler-Tal 4.4.IX.1O; SNG ANS 18; Sofaer Gaza pl. 103, 6, F, toned, off center, die wear, tight somewhat squared flan, ragged edge, Gaza(?) mint, weight 0.478g, maximum diameter 8.7mm, c. 375 - 333 B.C.; obverse head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl, hair in parallel bands, eye in profile; reverse owl standing right, wings closed, head facing, olive spray with one olive between two leaves and a crescent behind, AΘE downward on right, all in incuse square, no Aramaic inscription; ex Classical Numismatic Group, ex Richard L. Horst Collection; $75.00

A Persian Period imitation of Athenian types from the Holy Land. In the past these coins were all attributed to Gaza, however, recent hoard finds indicate a mint at Ashkelon probably also struck this type. It is likely that at least several small mints struck these imitative types.

See Persian Rule - The Persian Empire in Phoenicia, Palestine, Judaea, and Egypt in the FORVM Shop.
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2023, 11:00:42 pm »
Judaea, Achaemenid Persian Yehud Province, c. 375 - 332 B.C.
JD99502. Silver half ma'ha (1/48 shekel), Hendin 6062 (RR), Menorah Coin Project YHD 15 (01/R1), Meshorer TJC -, Bromberg -, Shoshana -, Sofaer -, Spaer Coll. -, HGC 10 -, F, dark toning, off center, Jerusalem (or nearby) mint, weight 0.339g, maximum diameter 8.3mm, die axis 180o, c. 350 - 332 B.C.; obverse incense bowl with flame and smoke; reverse falcon upward, head right, wings open, Aramaic (YHD) on right, read right to left (upward); Coin Archives records only one specimen of the type at auction in the last two decades; very rare; $3700.00

Yehud, or Yehud Medinata (Aramaic for Province of Judah), was a province of the Persian Achaemenid Empire which corresponded to the previous Babylonian province of Yehud, which was formed after the fall of the kingdom of Judah to the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 597 B.C. The territory, which was ruled by mostly Jewish governors, was considerably smaller and held a far smaller population than the kingdom of Judah before the Babylonian conquest. Yehud existed until the area was incorporated into the empires of Alexander the Great and his successors.

See Persian Rule - The Persian Empire in Phoenicia, Palestine, Judaea, and Egypt in the FORVM Shop.

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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2023, 11:04:04 pm »
Judaea, Achaemenid Persian Yehud Province, c. 375 - 332 B.C.
JD99503. Silver gerah, Hendin 6060 (RR), Menorah Coin Project YHD 13 (01/R1), Meshorer TJC 18, HGC 10 440, Bromberg -, Shoshana -, Sofaer -, VF, toned, off center, light marks and scratches, die wear, edge split, Jerusalem (or nearby) mint, weight 0.295g, maximum diameter 8.2mm, c. 350 - 332 B.C.; obverse ear of God; reverse falcon upward, head right, wings open, Aramaic (YHD) on right, read right to left (upward); very rare; $4200.00

"The notable relationship between man and his god was that between supplicant and listener: the supplicant voices his prayer and entreaties to his god, and the god listens and tries to carry out his wishes. Thus the god's most important organ was his ear that heard the prayer..." -- Y. Meshorer in A Treasury of Jewish Coins.

"Incline Thine ear, O Lord, and answer me" (Psalms 86:1)

"for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord" (Numbers 11:18).


See Persian Rule - The Persian Empire in Phoenicia, Palestine, Judaea, and Egypt in the FORVM Shop.
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Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2023, 12:20:27 am »
Oh gosh, some day I would love to have one of those types showing just an ear on the obverse! (I finally just got a Skione Hemiobol of about the same size with an eye on the reverse, they'd make such a nice pair.)
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2023, 07:40:13 am »
 ;D

Offline Joel W2

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2023, 08:16:53 am »
Thanks for doing those coins, Joe! Beautiful coins, indeed. I would love the YHD-01 and YHD-02 variety, although admittedly it is likely out of my price range.

I find the history of the Yehud-series coins quite fascinating, being the first coins produced by the Jewish people after their release. I believe I also read (somewhere???) that they were likely used to pay the temple tax prior to the Tyre half shekel (1:20 or 1:24 ratio?). Not sure of the source or the accuracy of that, but I recall reading it somewhere.


Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2023, 08:34:15 am »
In the Bible, 20 gerah’s equals a shekel.  Prior to coins, a gerah and a shekel was a weight standard. These new gerah coins weigh the same as the biblical gerah weight standard.  So it is possible that 20 of these coins were used to pay that temple tax shortly after Nehemiah rebuilt Jerusalem up until the Ptolemaic period.  Hendin lays it out really nicely in Guide to Biblical Coins

Offline Joel W2

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2023, 11:14:07 am »
Thanks, Jay. I just bought Hendin’s book (5th edition) a few days ago and it should be arriving Monday. I’ve been buying coins from Hendin since the mid to late 1980’s when he mailed catalogs. Back then, I was only 8 and shopped the “bargain bin” section of his catalog. 😅
I’ve now got a bit more of a budget, although still not collecting anywhere near the scale of some on this site!
Regardless, looking forward to getting a copy of that book.

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2023, 11:32:06 am »
You did good buying the 5th edition instead of the 6th.  Cheaper.  They're probably 95% the same except of course the reference numbers are all different now.  I got him to sign mine ;D

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2023, 05:05:10 pm »
You did good buying the 5th edition instead of the 6th.  Cheaper.  They're probably 95% the same except of course the reference numbers are all different now.  I got him to sign mine ;D

I've got his 5th and his 1st edition. I haven't seen the 6th, but judging from the plate coins that have been sold, it looks like he must change a lot of the photos with each new volume? Never saw 2, 3, or 4, as far I recall.

I was a bit bummed out to not catch any of the Hendin Collection plate coins sold at CNG's Keystone Auction 9 last month. It seemed like the prices went high for those illustrated in Guide to Biblical Coins...

I wondered if maybe the bidding system got overwhelmed? For most of my bids (or attempted bids) I couldn't get them to register in time, placing bids at least a minute before hammer (I'd have won 1 or 2 if they had been entered and not counterbid). Seemed like a repeat of what happened at the Leu Numismatik auction not long ago. (I can't be too upset, since at Leu I won the final lot before the auction had to be postponed, and suspect I only did so because the system locked up.)

I have a modest collection of author-signed numismatic literature, but no Hendins, so I've also been kicking myself for not buying one of the first 100 of Hendin's signed Sixth Editions from the ANS with member discount! (I do have a couple of BCD auction catalogs ex-Library of David Hendin, though, which I'm quite happy about!)

I just bought Hendin’s book (5th edition) ...  I’ve been buying coins from Hendin since the mid to late 1980’s when he mailed catalogs.

I collect old ancient coin auction catalogs too, and having some of his would be neat. Are they under "Amphora Coins (NY)"? Or just in his own name? (Was Amphora started by Herb Kreindler, or was it always Hendin? I checked the Fitzwilliam Museum's catalog-collection-catalog but it wasn't entirely clear.)
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2023, 07:20:26 pm »
If you buy directly from Hendin he will sign the book if you ask at no charge :)

Offline Joel W2

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2023, 07:54:46 pm »
It was “Amphora Coins” when I was shopping in the 80’s. I believe my mom, who inspired me to collect ancient coins, has some of those catalogs still. At the time, we were living in Brazil, so they traveled with us.

I believe I bought Hendin’s book from his eBay account (also “Amphora Coins”), and wish I would have asked him to sign it. Oh well. Maybe his next edition…

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Yehud coins rarity
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2023, 10:55:12 pm »
To Curtis specifically and all generally,

On auction bidding platforms, normally I do not bid at live sessions, having usually entered in my maximum bid previously and let the chips (or cards would be more accurate, where the heck did that chips saying come from?) fall where they may. But, I have and it has usually worked out or I have been legitimately outbid (no harm nor foul). Except for, I am pretty sure, the last Leu auction where I was more than willing to go up a notch or two and it refused to let me. I did not bid in the Hendin coin auction, although I would have liked to help out ANS, but budget was not there. Anyway, this has happened to me long ago in EBay auctions (not for coins), but I attributed it to well timed snipe bids and I was on DSL versus maybe someone on higher speed cable. I honestly think when this happens it is more just the nature of the interconnections between us all to wherever the server is that records the bids and it can be a crap shoot (enough with the gambling references). In the Leu case, I would have gone higher than what I tried to bid and the coin still went for less than I was attempting. I am still upset about it, because it would have been a great buy for my top priority coin. Oh well. Should have stuck with my usual max bid philosophy, but I got clever.

On Hendin, I was lucky to get one of the ANS first hundred copies that were signed. When I ordered it, I didn't even know and was happily surprised when it was numbered and signed. I have also communicated with David Hendin a few times via email and he is so nice and helpful. I took his Biblical Coins ANS Symposium a year or so ago, those are such a great perk of membership for collectors like me. If you really wanted the signature, I am almost sure he would sign it if you sent it to him with return postage box or envelope. He wouldn't care what edition it was.

Virgil

 

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