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Author Topic: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?  (Read 2890 times)

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Offline Mayadigger

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Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« on: May 07, 2018, 05:48:17 pm »
Ave!

Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?

Copper alloy; 45mm/7.9gm

The ancient Celts loved sinuous forms and the smith who created this remarkably elegant and beautiful clasp was no exception.

Here's how it worked: the smaller end was sewn/affixed to one side of the cloak and toggle (not a button) was sewn to the other side of the cloak. The toggle was then used to close the clasp.

Please correct me is my attribution is incorrect.

Best regards to all.

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline SC

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 08:19:58 pm »
Do you have a source for that?  I have never seen such an item described anywhere in ancient literature.

SC
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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Mayadigger

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 05:08:45 pm »
Ave Shawn,

Do you have a source for that?  I have never seen such an item described anywhere in ancient literature. SC

No.

My only resource for the artifact is my wife Sheri. LOL! Perhaps women understand better as to how such things work.

Honestly, Sheri looked at it and came up with our attribution for it in a single glance.

Do you have a better attribution? Please let me know. 

Best regards,

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline SC

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 06:36:47 pm »
I am uber conservative on this stuff.  Total guesses are OK, I do them too, but to me should be noted as such.

I only feel confident when I have an exact or extremely close parallel in documented literature.

May well be, though whether what you said or something different, and whether Bronze Age or 18th century has got to be tentative for now.

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Aleksanr B

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 08:08:03 am »
 Здравствуйте, я отвечу так как много раз встречал этот предмет, это колчанная застежка, хорошо изученный наукой предмет.

   http://annales.info/skif/chernenk/bow3.htm

Aleksanr B

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 08:15:26 am »
Unfortunately my correct answer is not received on the forum

  Hello, I will answer because I have met this item many times, it is a Scythian clasp from a quiver, a well-studied subject.
 
  http://annales.info/skif/chernenk/bow3.htm

Offline SC

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 09:18:59 am »
Which of the two items to you mean?  The top or bottom one?

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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline *Alex

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2020, 09:20:37 am »
Aleksanr B's explanation.

Alex


Offline SC

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 09:43:25 am »
That is clearly part of the answer, but it is not the only answer.

Almost identical items are found in Britain.  You can see several be searching "toggle" on the PAS website (finds.org.uk).  They are clearly not Scythia items, but are instead known to be Iron Age, though their exact use is uncertain/disputed (i.e. cloak "button" or not).

This shows the importance of knowing where your item is from. 

For an almost identical item you get one ID and use for items from SE or eastern Europe and another ID and usefrom UK and northern Gaul.

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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline *Alex

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2020, 09:57:35 am »

This shows the importance of knowing where your item is from. 

For an almost identical item you get one ID and use for items from SE or eastern Europe and another ID and usefrom UK and northern Gaul.

SC


 +++  I second that.

Alex

Aleksanr B

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Re: Bronze Age Celtic Cloak Clasp, c. 9th-3rd Cent BC?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2020, 03:48:52 pm »
otlichnik  I agree with you many items are similar in many Nations, So you need to know where the item is from.

 

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