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Roma AV 60 asses original or fake (mordern die)?

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sink9891:

--- Quote from: glebe on October 09, 2021, 01:12:05 am ---Astarte XIX-641 seems to be die match.

Ross G.

(For the moment I can't post a pic. - there's something wrong with something somewhere)

OK - now it works

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Altamura on October 09, 2021, 02:09:36 am ---I saw this is already the second try :): https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=126128.msg758771#msg758771

The remarks there on the special features of the coin are still valid, aren't they?

At least among the examples in CRRO you don't find something similar: http://numismatics.org/crro/id/rrc-44.2

You could have a look into the Schaefer Roman Republican Die Study, Crawford 44/2 begins here on slide 10: http://numismatics.org/archives/ark:/53695/schaefer.rrdp.b03#schaefer.rrdp.b03_0016
perhaps you find something.

Regards

Altamura

--- End quote ---

Thanks Ross and Altamura,these do a lot of help!I find this type in the link and slide 10,just in the middle. ;D
A friend said it may not be a good one so I posted it here,though he is not very sure about it.
The dots on the observe are very clear.After I read some mordern die fakes in the report,I was more confused...

sink9891:
So folks are there any red flag for this one ? :police:

djmacdo:
It seems to me there are red flags--the coin is not similar to attested specimens.  It may well be authentic, but there are doubts.  Or am I reading this incorrectly?

sink9891:

--- Quote from: djmacdo on October 09, 2021, 08:07:01 pm ---It seems to me there are red flags--the coin is not similar to attested specimens.  It may well be authentic, but there are doubts.  Or am I reading this incorrectly?

--- End quote ---

A similar die piece was sold at Astarte XIX has been indicated by glebe.
And with the help of Altamura I was able to find the same dies in the note of the Dr.Schaefer,one of them seems a 1992 sold piece.

Din X:
If fake it would be a recut transfer die fake, but to prove this a die study would be necessary to reconstruct which details were in the ancient dies in which die state.
I do not like the coin (lifeless, soapy surface, and some differences in details to die matches may be due to wrong recutting) but to prove it could be very difficult because I could not find enough die matches in good quality, which would be good enough for a representative die study.
To prove it is in such cases, especially if you know the result (fake or not) before is only for fun or self-affirmation.



In museum collections available at numismatics.org is not any die match, but I guess it could be possible to find more die matches in other museum collections, literature (like auction catalogues etc) if someone is willing to spend much time and money

http://numismatics.org/crro/id/rrc-44.2

If someone is really interested and willing to spend much time and money he or she could of course prove it but, why sould anyone do this, if he/she will get in best case a thank you and the effort is in no relation to the value of the coin and the one who is doing it will get in best cases a thank you. I am sometimes doing such things, like spending much time and money (literature, to see authentic ones in hand or fakes or spend money for them to be digitalized) for research.
It seems like others do not see such things or appreaciate them but this is actually not necessary because it can be really fun to get to know more about such coins and helpping to get even better, so it can pay off at the end.
To do research for own coins is another case and always more interesting.

I own a Samos drachm, bought it very cheap from ebay, it was sold together with many old fakes, so most likely someone sold an old fake collection.
So it was first in my fake collection becasue I thought it must be fake because it was sold with fakes.
But it looks so convincing.
So I started research.
Of my coin a plaster cast is at Münzkabinett Berlin indicating that it was a long time ago condemed by director of Münzkabinett Julius Friedländer , Julius Friedländer has described a coin of this type in his book as fake.
So I bought Silver Coins of Samos by Barron, because my coin looks 100% authentic in hand and I have found die matches and die links in very old auction catalogues.
My coin is a die match to a coin considered by Barron as authentic and my coins is die liked to the other authentic Samos drachms of this type!
Research costed some time and money (book was expensive and travel to Berlin) but I really enjoyed it especially because it is my coin and it is 100% authentic, more authentic is not possible.
If it would not be my coin I would not have invested so much money and time for it.
And on the plaster cast of my coin a pedigree is written "Kiehn, Köln, 1935, 4, 59 bzw. Kiehn, Köln, 1935, (März)" but I couldn´t verify it so far.



 







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