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Author Topic: Demetrios II fakes  (Read 1644 times)

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Offline Din X

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Demetrios II fakes
« on: January 17, 2018, 12:33:27 pm »
Beirut forgery modern dies.
Picture 1 in my last posts is always my specimen

Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 12:57:19 pm »
More

Die match to (see for example wing of nike, should be 2 wings )
IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 5 No.1/2 1980 Page 4 Fig

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=cltLj87Wq3w=

Style on the reverse is a disaster

Same reverse die as

IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 18 No.1 1993 Page 30 Fig 8a

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=7dot1hWQCbA=

So 3 obverse dies exist with this reverse die ( see wing of nike)


Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 05:17:29 pm »
Fake coin report(s) please. This type fooled me. The bottom coin in the second post (the coin just above this post) was sold by Forum seven years ago.
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Offline peterpil19

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 08:20:46 am »
Hi Din X,

So I can upload the fake coin reports accurately, can you please confirm that I have understood the above, or correct me as necessary:

1. First group of photos - obverse die matches to published BOCS Vol 5 No.1/2 1980 Page 4. I cannot see the victory clearly enough in the image - is the reverse style wrong here too as per your comment about the second group of coins?

2. Second group of photos - reverse die matches to above report as well as BOCS Vol 18 No.1 1993 Page 30 Fig 8a. Reverse style wrong. Can you please elaborate? Victory should have 2 wings not one - is that the extent of the style issues, or is there more?

Thanks for your help!

Peter

Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 11:23:44 am »
Hi Din X,

So I can upload the fake coin reports accurately, can you please confirm that I have understood the above, or correct me as necessary:

1. First group of photos - obverse die matches to published BOCS Vol 5 No.1/2 1980 Page 4. I cannot see the victory clearly enough in the image - is the reverse style wrong here too as per your comment about the second group of coins?

2. Second group of photos - reverse die matches to above report as well as BOCS Vol 18 No.1 1993 Page 30 Fig 8a. Reverse style wrong. Can you please elaborate? Victory should have 2 wings not one - is that the extent of the style issues, or is there more?

Thanks for your help!

Peter

To the wing, I only referred to it to proof that they are from the same dies, yes the wing does not look right and nike too.
The style and the oberse dies are actually in most cases much better and more deceptive than the reverse dies.

The fakes from my frist post are possibly not published so far, I own one of them which was in the fake collection of the dealer.
They seem to be from Beirut and the same forger as the other fakes.
The are clearly fake and this is how the dealer detected this fake which I later bought from him as fake in the education wallet.
It is well possible that they are published too and the entry is only missing in forgernetwork and fake reports, I have noticed that not all fakes from BOS are in fake reports and on forgerynetwork.

The style is off, the face, head and hair of Zeus does not look ancient and the anatomie on reverse etc.
On the obverse the hair does sometimes look odd or better is off.
The quality how good the forgery imitated the style differs a little bit on these fakes but at least the style of the reverse or obverse is wrong on all of them.

The art/works of the artists do always mirror and represent the time in which they live.
People in modern times do have a different view of the world and things as people had in ancient times.
One example are modern fake coins and statues with smiling emperors or gods, or to strong mimic.
Or wrong gesture on fake coins or statues of emerors or gods etc.

The toning is artificial on my 2 fakes from Beirut.
The flans do look to round and perfect and show equal thickness.
They do look flat and rather pressed than struck.
Almost all do not have edge cracks and if they have some they do look like the edge cracks from pressing (only found one with edge cracks and there are many fakes from different issues and dies from this Beirut workshop)

Some more fakes from same workshop and forger/artis, most are already published

Antiochos IV

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=9H1YV/QwrY0=

Demetrios

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=rW~x~8mG8tzrY=

Demetrios

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=kuxHRwpBhhA=

Thea

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=uMYQTRe0vfw=

There are more but too lazy too look and from most fake issues are several examples already in forgerynetwork,
I posted all I found always






 

Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 11:30:40 am »
I do post 2 fake Thea teradrachms same dies and 1 authentic example from same issue maybe then it will be more obvious how bad this fakes are.
The Head of Zeus is much nicer, the letters are better the whole style is better.
Picture 1+2 fake same dies
Picture 3 authentic

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 11:34:28 am »
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Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 03:50:46 am »
I forgot to add, this forger from Beirut has his OWN style and he made fake dies and with them coins  for many Syrian Kings which lived in different times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is possible that some other die combinations are already published too in the online BOCS and that some of them are already withdrawn.
I have found some more die linked fakes, at least on has already been withdrawn, I do not spend 15 Euro for acsearch premium to see which ones were withdrawn and which not, maybe only this one maybe many more, who cares.

The laureate crown of Zeus, look like horns on some of this fakes, which is very odd.
The Style especially of Zeus and nike is too crude, the hair especially on the obverse is very odd at some points.

Some more die links

Picture 1 +2 same coin resold later at auction, belongs to a previous post in this thread


Picture 3 new die combination (one of these has already been recoginzed as fake and was withdrawn at auction)

Picture 4+5 BOCS

BOCS same obverse die

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=UxDyUmIweRU=

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=7dot1hWQCbA=

Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2018, 04:00:10 am »
The ones sold at auction


Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 04:06:11 am »
new die combination

Again Zeus has horns like Ammon or Devil or Moses etc.^^

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=cltLj87Wq3w=

IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 5 No.1/2 1980 Page 4 Fig


Acsearch is blocking German auction house pictures if you try to access from Germany, they are still available with free proxy from other countries but I always run into traffic limit, will look for more when I have time and new traffic

Offline peterpil19

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2018, 05:08:03 am »
OK.

I believe I have added a fake coin report for each example above and hopefully correctly attributed them.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19262
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19261
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19260
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19259
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19258
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19257
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19256
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19255

Note: there were already fake coin reports for the Cleopatra Thea tetradrachms above.

Din X - do you mind checking the reports that I have filed and adding anything further in the comments section? Can you please also clarify if all the examples in your view belong to the same Beirut forger? I was not certain, so only included that in the reports for the ones I was.

Joe - I cannot edit existing fake coin reports. The images below for BOCS Vol 18 No.1 1993 Page 30 Fig 8a and 8b, are superior to the ones in the existing FORVM fake coin reports. Suggest these photos replace the existing ones in those reports:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-8209
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-8210

Peter

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2018, 05:52:17 am »
The photos on Fake Coin Reports are not easily edited.  Replacing them with a new report is just as easy.  I think we are OK with what we have.
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Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2018, 05:53:34 am »
There are more fakes, even some of the Thea fakes were sold at auction, did not add them here.
There I have found some new fakes of these which are did linked, will post them if I have time

Offline Din X

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Re: Demetrios II fakes
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2018, 06:57:56 am »
Die Links, I am too lazy to look which fakes I have not posted so far but the die links show all combinations I have found so far and should be enough.

I did  3 authentic 2 fake together in one picture (picture 1) guess which are authetnic and which fake.
Pretty obvious.

Edit found more die links and update merged pictures

 

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