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Author Topic: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds  (Read 1804 times)

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Offline Chris F2

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"old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« on: December 21, 2019, 05:02:00 pm »
Quick history which I've previously shared:

I originally entered the ancient coin collecting hobby in 2005-2006, buying small lots of uncleaned Romans off of eBay and few from standalone shops. Played around with those for about a year, identifying maybe 10% and left ~300 remaining coins soaking in olive oil from 2006-2018. I returned to the hobby in winter 2018, purchasing a few hundred uncleaneds directly from several vendors (including Forum). My original/old purchases were all at a <$2/per coin pricepoint and many were <$1/coin. My recent/new purchases have ranged are primarily in $1.50-$2.00 range, and I've also purchased a couple small lots of premium uncleaneds at $3-8 per coin.

Last winter, I pulled all my old uncleaneds out of olive oil and sorted them into three groups -- best, 2nd tier, and still crusty/3rd tier. All three groups received a thorough scrubbing and several changes of distilled water soaks.

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Which takes me to the present. Last night, I dumped those 3rd tier crusties out of the DW and gave them another scrubbing and examination. As expected, many are still crusty, and others have obvious and extensive corrosion. A good chunk manage to be both crusty AND corroded! A few are starting to come around and look pleasantly attributable, which is cool. Biggest surprise,however, are seven coins which appear to be Greek (small diameter and very thick) and Seleucid (bottlecap). Nothing like those in any of the 2018-2019 lots -- new lots have been 100% Roman from what I can tell.

Has anyone else had experience finding Greek or Seleucid coins in uncleaned lots, past or present?

Offline SC

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 08:46:01 pm »
The less "filtered" a lot is the more it betrays its place of origin.

The best fun and variety I ever had was with "Holy Land" lots.  I was lucky enough to travel to the Middle East several times and bought lots in Israel and Jordan.

These contained coins from almost everyone who ruled that area: Greek cities, Seleucid, Ptolemaic, Nabatean, Hasmonean, Roman (Imperial and Provincial), Byzantine and Islamic (Umayyad, Abbasid, Ayyubid, Mamluk and early Ottoman).

A lot of fun to identify.  They ended up costing me a huge amount in books because I wanted to identify and learn about every one.....

SC

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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Justin W

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 09:13:00 pm »
Well in my experience I usually don’t find any Greek coins, because most uncleared coins nowadays are supposedly coming from the Balkans. But I suspect  that uncleared lots from the Middle East garner a lot more Greek coins like what Shawn said.

PS Shawn I am actually going to Israel this week do you mind educating me on the uncleaned coin market there.

Offline lawrence c

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2019, 09:13:42 am »
When I was doing uncleaned lots in the past, I also got several lots from the Middle East that had not been picked through. As a rough average, I would say that in a typical lot of 50 coins, about 30-40 would be Roman, a few would be Greek/Seleucid, and the remainder Islamic (or unidentifiable). These figures obviously were very variable, but there almost always seemed to be a mix.

I'm not sure what the uncleaned picture looks like in Israel now. I tend not to do uncleaned now anyway, but absolutely don't do anything directly coming out of the Middle East because of the amount of looting and how the profits are ending up in some very bad hands. The situation probably is 'cleaner' in Israel, but I'm not sure that many of the reputable dealers there are even willing to handle uncleaned lots because of the tighter profits and increased scrutiny. I do know that at least one major UK source for uncleaned who handled a lot of Middle Eastern uncleaned hordes stopped doing business a few years ago because of the increased hassles of verifying legal sources.

Offline Chris F2

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 11:05:55 am »
Good point re: source of origin. I can confirm that most of my recent purchases are advertised as of Balkan origin. The AE3/4s tend towards a blue green patina under the dirt, with the ants trending brown/black. No desert patina in sight.

Offline B-Chicago

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2019, 10:30:16 pm »
Interesting topic

and slightly OT but related:

I highly suggest you drop the olive oil routine and stick with distilled water

3 things that work for me

- changing the water about every 6-8 weeks or when it is obvious it needs changed (muck floating on the surface or goo forming around the coins)

- thoroughly cleaning the containers in between water swaps while the coins fully dry out

- short soaks in warm soapy water (up to a few hours) scrub then rinse then dry


Offline Chris F2

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2019, 10:12:36 am »

I highly suggest you drop the olive oil routine and stick with distilled water

3 things that work for me

- changing the water about every 6-8 weeks or when it is obvious it needs changed (muck floating on the surface or goo forming around the coins)

- thoroughly cleaning the containers in between water swaps while the coins fully dry out

- short soaks in warm soapy water (up to a few hours) scrub then rinse then dry


100% concur on ditching the olive oil treatment. That treatment was what I had used over ten years ago and it was very popular at the time. After getting the coins out of olive oil, I've stuck with the distilled water treatment, occasionally scrubbing with warm soapy water.

Also agree with letting the coins soak in DW for weeks or months between brushings. It does take time, patience, and repeated soaks/brushing cycles, but it's amazing to see how well some of these coins turn out.

One of these days I'll try to get a pic up of what I originally thought was a massive slug  is now revealing itself as what I think is an Antoninus Pius sestertius w/a quadriga reverse in approaching Fine condition. Granted, that coin came from a premium batch of uncleaneds (~$4/coin), but I'm still pleased with the outcome.

Offline B-Chicago

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Re: "old" vs. "new" uncleaneds
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2019, 12:06:04 am »

I highly suggest you drop the olive oil routine and stick with distilled water

3 things that work for me

- changing the water about every 6-8 weeks or when it is obvious it needs changed (muck floating on the surface or goo forming around the coins)

- thoroughly cleaning the containers in between water swaps while the coins fully dry out

- short soaks in warm soapy water (up to a few hours) scrub then rinse then dry


100% concur on ditching the olive oil treatment. That treatment was what I had used over ten years ago and it was very popular at the time. After getting the coins out of olive oil, I've stuck with the distilled water treatment, occasionally scrubbing with warm soapy water.

Also agree with letting the coins soak in DW for weeks or months between brushings. It does take time, patience, and repeated soaks/brushing cycles, but it's amazing to see how well some of these coins turn out.

One of these days I'll try to get a pic up of what I originally thought was a massive slug  is now revealing itself as what I think is an Antoninus Pius sestertius w/a quadriga reverse in approaching Fine condition. Granted, that coin came from a premium batch of uncleaneds (~$4/coin), but I'm still pleased with the outcome.




sweet! look forward to seeing it - and yeah I have had a few over the years go from a smooth slug that looked like a skipping stone to exceptional beauty after many years in the soak

 

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