silvered Salonina question

[Johnny]

This Salonina is showing promiss as far as silvering goes. The silver is still on the high points wich is a good sign,  and after a test dig into  the side ( rim) it  is very thick.

now the problem is that the coin is in fact showing green in some areas

I've been debating this for a few days now as how to proceed..so I send you the question.  how would you proceed

awww  my first poll...


if you answer other,  could you explain it in a post please 

[casata137ec]

I'd like to explain my answer: CLEAN IT!! 

Chris

[Johnny]

LOL what are you saying  ??  do you want me to clean it  LOL

ok,  but do you have any recommendations on this ?  we all remember the Valerian one with the soft porus reverse.  how would you clean this ?

[Rich Beale]

The silvering on this coin appears to be in a very delicate state, and nowhere near complete. My estimation is that silvering survives on probably less than 40% of the coin, though of course I could be wrong. That however is based on the appearance of the raised surfaces, notably the obverse, that do not display evidence of silvering. I would be very careful in cleaning this piece - DW and gentle brushing is probably the way forwards, at least initially. Once some of the dirt is removed, a re-estimation of the coin's condition will be possible.

[casata137ec]

Actually Johnny, I have been having more luck cleaning silvered coins dry and just using a scalpel/xacto. In this way the silver seems to flake off less (theory: since most of the silvered coins I have dealt with are in pretty bad shape, with the silvering kinda on the flakey side, I figure that DW (or any liquid soaks for that matter) will get in and under any break in the silver and loosen the already weak bond). It takes a little longer, and I have to keep my whet stone handy (these seem to work better with a sharper blade), but it seems like I am saving more of the silvering than I did with soaks and brushing.

Chris

[Johnny]

well,  I'll give her a go,  LOL  still fearing a repeat of the soft porus valerian coin I did

  I'll  keep updated scans  and see if I can get that changing coin trick that scott does too

cheers

[casata137ec]

I kinda got the idea from that Valerian coin as a matter of fact. The guys that know more than you and me freaked me out saying that even water could soften up a coin like it did with yours...what it comes down to for me is this: moving less materials in a sitting, and in small and controlled areas, is a safer and truer test of the underlying coin surface than soaking and brushing the whole thing at once (with silvered anyway). (a lot of my newly found patience for cleaning is stemming from my newly found lack of disposable cash...figures I'd develope a taste for a semi-expensive hobby just as our economy is heading down the tubes!)


Chris

[Mayadigger]

Ave!

Actually Johnny, I have been having more luck cleaning silvered coins dry and just using a scalpel/xacto. In this way the silver seems to flake off less (theory: since most of the silvered coins I have dealt with are in pretty bad shape, with the silvering kinda on the flakey side, I figure that DW (or any liquid soaks for that matter) will get in and under any break in the silver and loosen the already weak bond). It takes a little longer, and I have to keep my whet stone handy (these seem to work better with a sharper blade), but it seems like I am saving more of the silvering than I did with soaks and brushing.

Chris

I agree with Chris; cleaned dry will be best for this coin.

Kevin

[Johnny]

well,  the experts have spoken,  and I have started the cleaning process ........thanks to all who voted inthe poll

I did realise that the silver  is VERY thick,,  so I'm not sure anymore  if this is silvered  or silver........  I was sure I saw copper core, when I dug into the rim,  but  now ...hummmmm   anyway, I'm mechanicallly cleaning the coin,  then  a fast 5 minute max soak in lemon juice, followed by a rince in tap water and repeat.  repeat.....

there is some progress being made

here are day 0, 1  and 2  of the process....more to follow

[Salem Alshdaifat]

Johnny
 
what you did?
you killed it  this shoyld come gVF wit nice patina??? and now it is fair?

you for sure shouldent used such tacnic at all wit billon coins??

[Johnny]

So I should have left it alone ?

[Joe Sermarini]

So I should have left it alone ?

Definitely.

[Johnny]

Thanks Joe

nnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

well,  I'll have to set this as part of the learning curve,  a hard lesson though 

[Mayadigger]

Ave!

Quote from me:

I agree with Chris; cleaned dry will be best for this coin.

Johnny, lemon juice can be used on silvered issues, but only under certain rare cases, and only after you have completely cleaned both surfaces mechanically so you have a better idea what you're dealing with. IE, no juice, no GG's, not even DW. I've found that any sort of liquid tends to loosen silvering.

Well,  I'll have to set this as part of the learning curve,  a hard lesson though

Yep, it happens to everyone. The trick is to remember your mistakes and not repeat them.  The mistake you made was that you were in too much of a hurry...and forgot the advise you were given. 

Regards,

Kevin

[Johnny]

you're absolutely right  about trying to rush things,  I did try a shortcut,   and it backfired on me ,  big time..I am still very ticked off at myself for having done this to this poor coin 

I think  what Salem  and Joe were saying is that I should have left it as it was ,with the sand  and patina on it,  and in all honesty,  I have to agree,  I was a very nice coin in hand before I got a hold of it

as you said,  all part of the learning  curve. It  still tickes me off to do it but.....

I can guarantee I won't be doing the same mistake again .....

  My appologies to the Numists who were offended by my lack of respect  for this coin.  it was not intentionnal 

[Mayadigger]

Ave!

John, it's just a coin. It's not as if you accidently unpluged your grandmother from life support. 

Kevin

[Johnny]

LOL  but I unpluged grandma too...         just kidding

I know it's just a coin,  but I just hate wrecking them.   

Oh well,  next time I'll listen to the advice given, without adding my little twist to the trick,  I hate learning lessons this way......

LOL  it's like doing a paint job  on a real old and expensive car,  trying to do the best job you can,  and then the bead of sweat falls off your forehead  and splat ,  right in the middle of the hood. your heart falls into your boots,  and you let out that sigh of disgust, and you say all kinds of bad words that  would cause grandma to unplug herself if she heard them

it's just  very disapointing

But  this is part ofthe learning curve,  and Salonina sacrificed her beauty so I could learn patience  and humility ( bless her heart)

cheers

[Salem Alshdaifat]

Hi Johnny
this is a coin from the same patina and area that your coin came from.
cleaning such coins is an art, it like you have to folow the lines and carve the coin again, see how this is done with water methood.
regards
Salem

[Johnny]

Thanks Salem

I've done some like that before, and they usually tourn out ok.  even stopped doing them dry and started using the wet trick like you had posted here earlier .  but this one was showing silver so I was attempting to clean to whole thing.  looks like i was wrong 

sooo much to learn

[Salem Alshdaifat]

that was fast cleaning, but the trick is the wet cleaning
I should charge you folks for those advises  I destroied so many coins to learen, and dont like you to destroy so many of your coins and waste so much time.
and the most I hate is to see a nice coin that can clean nice and get damaged 
as a start dont go deep in the detailes try to clean the way I did, when you practis more then you can go littel deaper.
regards
Salem

[Johnny]

Thanks again salem

Fortunately,  this is only  the second coin  that I can say I destroyed,  and hopefully the last

some were not as nice  as they could have been ,  some turned out fantastic....

I tried to rush things on this one,  and it did not work.  but I did learn  from it  so it's not a total loss


Edited<<<I'm glad you don't charge for the cleaning help,  I'd be broke and have no money for coins 

cheers

[SC]

Johnny,

Don't feel too bad.  First, your coin is not destroyed.  May not be as nice as it could of but get the silver to darken one day and it is better than a slug.  Second, your loss is our gain, as were all of the failures Salem spoke of.  We all learn by reading this.  Your postings and experience are very valuable to me.  I hope to get a decent camera one day and I too will post my failures, and hopefully some successes.

Shawn

[Johnny]

Thanks  Shawn

not to worry,  if anyone can learn from my mistakes,  I'll gladly post them 

[larry c]

I keep my "oops" coins on the base of my work lamp, when I start getting too agressive they remind me to take a break. Rome wasn't built in a day, it's coin won't be cleaned by Saturday! at least by me!

[Salem Alshdaifat]

you are right Larry
and after practising alot it will be an easy job, like shaving in the morning 
regards
Salem

[Mayadigger]

[Peter Williams]

[Salem Alshdaifat]

[Johnny]