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Author Topic: Nero as Apollo  (Read 1831 times)

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Offline moonmoth

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Nero as Apollo
« on: July 14, 2010, 04:27:55 pm »
This is a new one for my holed coins collection, and a nice one to have of Nero.



Copper as of Nero. Rome mint, c. 62 CE.  28mm x 29mm, 10.53g.
Obverse: NERO CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVG GERMANIC. Bare head right.
Reverse: PONTIF MAX TR P IMP P P. Nero, laureate, advancing right in the flowing robed of Apollo Citharoedus, right hand playing lyre held in left.
RefRIC I 81.

Here is Nero, pictured as Apollo playing the lyre -  a concert-type cithara.  This is an extreme of self-delusion.  Could anyone be as talented and artistic as Apollo?   Yet Nero thought of himself as a great artist, world class.   It is not actually very likely that he played the lyre as Rome burned, but this is how he would have done it. 

Another interesting point about this as is that it is one of a small group that did not have the normal letters S C across the field.

Bill
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline berserkrro

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 10:48:31 am »
Nice coin! Another interesting thing about it is that under Apollo there is (it should be) an "I" marking the denomination. For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).

Offline cicerokid

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 10:55:30 am »

I wonder did Nero actually finance this coin himself, since it lacks the SC of Senatus Consultus as you point out.

If this is correct/ likely, it makes it an even more intresting coin because it surely means he must have approved it himself, maybe posed for it,  and thus a direct link to a notorious emperor and confirms historical sources about how he saw himself and how he wanted to project  his "image"to all and sundry. An As is quite a lowely coin monetary wise but quite large and thus imposing and , at the time, a common coin(?).

A great propaganda peice.

Are there other denominations of his also without the SC , eg, Dupondius or Sestertius?


Cicerokid
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Offline moonmoth

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 11:52:08 am »

I wonder did Nero actually finance this coin himself, since it lacks the SC of Senatus Consultus as you point out.

(...)

Are there other denominations of his also without the SC , eg, Dupondius or Sestertius?

Cicerokid

It's quite possible that Nero did requisition the metal for these coins himself, though that does not tell us how closely he supervised the designs.  According to RIC, several possible explanations have been advanced for the absence of S C; that they were "medallions," patterns, or presentation-pieces; but the number of dies,  and the wear on many specimens, suggests that this was a regular issue for circulation. 

There were orichalcum dupondii and sestertii, and copper asses, semisses and quadrantes, all lacking the S C.

... Another interesting thing about it is that under Apollo there is (it should be) an "I" marking the denomination. For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).

I think that although this is true of the later AEs with the S C, it is not true of this issue. 

Bill
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline quisquam

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 11:54:37 am »
Are there other denominations of his also without the SC , eg, Dupondius or Sestertius?

Yes, all bronze coins of RIC Issue 1 and 2 of Rome (dated c. A.D. 62-63) are without S C. Sestertii, Dupondii, Asses, Semisses and Quadrantes.

I think the Apollo-revers refers to the Ludi Quinquennalis, held for the first time A.D. 60.

This coin was minted before Nero entered the stage as musician in public, and as Christopher Howgego writes in 'Ancient History from Coins', there is no element of iconography, facial characteristic or inscription on the coins to indicate that Nero himself is intended.

This is one of my favorite coin types, thanks for showing.

Stefan

Offline ancientdave

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 01:44:30 pm »
Are there other denominations of his also without the SC , eg, Dupondius or Sestertius?

Yes, all bronze coins of RIC Issue 1 and 2 of Rome (dated c. A.D. 62-63) are without S C. Sestertii, Dupondii, Asses, Semisses and Quadrantes.

I think the Apollo-revers refers to the Ludi Quinquennalis, held for the first time A.D. 60.

This coin was minted before Nero entered the stage as musician in public, and as Christopher Howgego writes in 'Ancient History from Coins', there is no element of iconography, facial characteristic or inscription on the coins to indicate that Nero himself is intended.

This is one of my favorite coin types, thanks for showing.

Stefan


I agree that the reverse of this coin probably does not depict Nero specifically, this notion comes down to us from Suetonius, who mentions this coin directly and states that it's reverse depicts Nero and sites it as evidence of his vanity.

We must remember that demonizing guys like Nero was very much in vogue in Suetonius' time, and it is possible that Suetonius himself did not even believe this, but was simply using this coin as propaganda to bolster his largely unflattering portrait of Nero.

Offline berserkrro

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 11:52:00 am »

... Another interesting thing about it is that under Apollo there is (it should be) an "I" marking the denomination. For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).

I think that although this is true of the later AEs with the S C, it is not true of this issue. 

Bill

I meant what I said, "For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).", not "of this issue" :) So I guess is true.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 12:37:49 pm »

... Another interesting thing about it is that under Apollo there is (it should be) an "I" marking the denomination. For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).

I think that although this is true of the later AEs with the S C, it is not true of this issue. 

Bill

I meant what I said, "For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).", not "of this issue" :) So I guess is true.

Sorry for the miscommunication!  I meant that the I showing the denomination was not present on this issue without the S C.

Bill
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline berserkrro

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 12:47:24 pm »
Yes you are right, this one without SC is also missing denomination. I'm sorry, I was wrong, (haven't check the catalogue and believing that it was a single issue). Best regards!

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 12:56:02 pm »
Nice coin! Another interesting thing about it is that under Apollo there is (it should be) an "I" marking the denomination. For imperial coins this is unusual (at least for first two and a half centuries).

Is it possible that the "I" was obliterated when the hole was drilled?

mz

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero as Apollo
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 01:36:22 pm »
As Bill and Berserkrro have stated, there can't have been a I in the exergue on Bill's As because value marks were only added in the next issue, which also now bore the letters S C and in which the asses were orichalcum not copper.  Asses without S C and in copper never bore marks of value.

I think that the old date of 64 for the beginning of Nero's bronze coinage is correct. In my view MacDowall, followed by Sutherland's RIC I, was wrong to try to backdate the beginning of the bronze coinage to 62.
Curtis Clay

 

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