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Author Topic: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes  (Read 8434 times)

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Offline Stkp

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The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« on: January 13, 2009, 03:02:49 pm »
For the newbie who would like to collect on the cheap but who does not have the patience for uncleaned coins, careful foraging in inexpensive "junk" boxes is a viable alternative.  This is one that I just found in an inexpensive "junk" box (it looks better than the scan).  I'll be adding it to my gallery, and am in the process of fully attributing it (Viminacium, Philip II).

Offline areich

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 03:27:27 pm »
I hear you, sometimes I dream of giant walk-in junkboxes.
Andreas Reich

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 06:05:26 pm »
I've had great finds in junk boxes.  2 Hadrian Sestertius one scarce, a few Mark Antony Legionaries (both legiable and illegiable Legions), and a very nice Titus Denarius, and a Faustina As,  All are in my gallery and I didn't pay more then $25 for any of them.

I also found 3 of my Claudius As' in a junk bin, I paid $35 each and they are very nice coins, 2 Minerva advancing and 1 Libertas.  They are out there if you look for them!

Offline casata137ec

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 10:10:16 pm »
My first truly uncleaned denarius (Severus Aleander, in my gallery if you were interested :) )came from an $8.95 junk box. I love them, although I only have one coin shop in the area that has one. The unattributed section here in the catalog is sort of similar too.

Chris
Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto - Missouri 1822

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=19691

Offline areich

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2009, 07:06:58 am »
Sort of but not a real junk box, where there's a set price for a coin.
Most will not be worth the money but there are usually some that are worth much more,
just going by preservation.
On top of that there may be coins that are rare but not spectacular if you don't look closely.
The larger the junk box the higher the chance to find something good.

There's another kind of junk box with lower-grade partially (mis)identified coins,
where you can get lucky. I have found many nice things there, including a cheap
Vespasian denarius that turned out to be a Titus, a bronze from Chabakta that was identified
as being from Amisos (which is the more common type) and many more coins that I don't remember.

Then there are the uncleaned coins, where you can usually find ones that don't need any cleaning at all, if the
box is big enough. Junk boxes are by far my favourite source of coins, since I don't have any specific holes in my collection to fill.

The more you know the more you can profit (in knowledge, the joy of finding something special, and
sometimes even financially but only in a small way). I don't know half as much as most people here but
often that is enough. Others have made much more spectacular finds.


Andreas

This one cost 10€ ($13 at the time):



 Civic, Apameia, Tyche / Hekate Triformis, AE16
AE16, 2.35g, 2nd century AD
obv: AΠAMEIA, turreted and draped bust of Tyche right
rev: AΠAMEΩN, Hekate Triformis, three-figured, each with double-chiton and wearing kalathos, holding torches
SNG v. Aulock 3475, SNG Leypold II 1438

This one was 5€ (about $7)



Pseudo-autonomous, Maeonia, Zeus / Athena, AE26

Andreas Reich

Offline Stkp

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2009, 11:27:04 am »
The coins that I have been posting to my gallery in my Roman Imperial Coin and Roman Provincial Coin files are coins that I recently pulled from $5 and $6 junk boxes.  They do not scan well (and I have not tried photography) and look nicer than the scans indicate.

Almost all of them are very common run-of-the-mill coins (although one of the Provincials, I understand, is a scarce variety of a common coin).  At this point in time, I don't have the knowledge to cull the less common coins from the boxes, and focus on those that appear to be fully attributable and have a modicum of eye-appeal.

Roman coinage is not my main field of collecting, and I acquire these more for the fun of attributing them and the learning that goes along with it, than with the goal of putting together a cohesive collection.  Perhaps over time I will find a smaller area within the vast sea of Roman coinage to focus my attention on...

My wife repeatedly comments in surprise about the amount of time that I spend with them.  I have more than gotten my money's worth.  Long live the junk box!

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 10:42:28 pm »
Nice finds guys!

  Here's two of the above mentioned Claudius As'



Offline areich

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 05:05:11 am »
The region where I live is not blessed with coin shops, so I only get to do it twice a year at the two big coin shows.
Coins listed on a website are not the same, if a dealer takes the time to take a picture he can't help noticing
if a coin is unusual or interesting and might research it further. The true junk boxes are those that have never been looked at by a dealer, I think. Among the coins that are just not worth the dealer's time you may find something good but it's
not called a junk boy for no reason. The hunt is the best part. I don't usually find many coins that actually make it into my collection but I do find nice coins that are fun to look at and research a little that I can sell on with a modest profit.


Andreas Reich

Offline SC

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 09:14:30 am »
The recent discussion under an identification thead ( https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=63208.0 ) which started discussing a republican fouree and moved on to the joys of junk boxes made me think of re-invigourating this thread.

I use "junk box" a lot when that is not really what I mean.  It implies that the dealer has "given up" on the coin.  What I like are the boxes, or bags or trays of unattributed, unsorted, semi-cleaned, (even sometimes uncleaned) that you can pick out of for a set price per coin. 

Maybe pick boxes is better but nevertheless "junk box" is an easy and convenient way to describe these things and will likely stick.

Personally, they are one of my favourite ways of buying coins.  You get the joy of the hunt.  It is a full test of your attribution skills.  You can stretch your money.  I think it is one real way where knowledge pays off in terms of savings.

Anyway, a few of my recent bargins (I think).

The first, at 5 Euro, still had some hard clay spots on it.  I don't know if dealer thought it was a rough SARMATIA DEVICTA or didn't even know or care about the type.  However, careful examination (and later cleaning) revealed it is a much rarer ALAMANNIA DEVICTA.

3 Euro got me this VIRTVS EXERCIT which had a thin coating of dirt and hard dark grey crust but a bit of silvering poking through.  It cleaned up fairly well I think.

Finally, 5 Euro got me this PROVIDENTIA CAESS, the scarcer legend on the type otherwise bearing IOVI CONSERVATORI CAESS.

Shawn
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Offline Philoromaos

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 09:32:34 am »
I used to like going to a dealers in York where he had a pick tray of denarii for £35 each but used to do them for me at £30. Here are a few of the scarcer coins I picked up. The last one's not scarce but it's a nice coin.

Adrian

Offline dougsmit

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 12:09:58 pm »

I use "junk box" a lot when that is not really what I mean.  It implies that the dealer has "given up" on the coin.  What I like are the boxes, or bags or trays of unattributed, unsorted, semi-cleaned, (even sometimes uncleaned) that you can pick out of for a set price per coin. 


Shows I attend have two types of junk boxes.  I agree on the preference for unattributed boxes but they are usually sorted at least to the point of being worn denarii, semi cleaned late Romans or some category that defines their wholesale value.  The problem with this sort of box is dealers often price them high enough to cover the possibility that there are bargains included so it is not a good place to pick up normal, common stuff that you might want for a collection.  Offered denarii at $100 each, I have found a coin or two but had the box been stripped of the $100 coins and priced at $50 I could have purchased a dozen. 

The second class of junk often appears as a 'half price' box.  These tend to be lots that the dealer mispriced in the first place and no one bought for what was too high a figure.  The coin is not junk but it was not worth the price.  At half price, some (not all) become appealing.  There are coins that are way over double a fair price but dealers that have a reputation for this usually get skipped at least until the afternoon if I still have money left after hitting the favorites.  I find it odd that I have frequently bought items in the half price box that I would have paid the full price for but did not see the item when it was a full price offering.  I think some dealers mark stuff up so they can mark it down but it could just mean that I had not seen that seller in over a year.  I benefit here from collecting some coins that few of the rest of you would consider at any price

I attach two samples that came out of $10 junk boxes (real junk).  Who among you would pay that much for such absolute junk?  The second is still my nicest example of the coin and I would gladly pay twice as much for a slightly better one.  ;D

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 12:45:47 pm »
Coming to Forum this summer...

Online pick boxes.  Photos of hundred (thousands?) of coins without descriptions or any additional information.  Our plan is as follows:

- Each box will have a price per coin and discounts for quantities selected from the pick box.  For example a pick box may say $5 each, 3 for $12, and 6 or more for $3.50 each.

- As a pick box is cleaned out of better coins the prices for remaining coins will be dropped or the remaining coins will be moved to another cheaper pick box. The markup on pick box coins will be small and get smaller over time. 
 
- Each pick box will have a gallery type display of small photos, mouse over each photo for an enlarged photo.

- Drag and drop the coins from the pick box into your keepers pile (initially a blank area) at the bottom of the screen.  Drag coins back from your keepers to the pick box if you change your mind.
 
- Each time you drop a coin into or out of your keepers pile, you will be informed of the total and the price for adding one more coin from the box.  Using the box above as an example: 
    After you add the 1st coin, your total will be $5 and you can add one more for $5. 
    After you add a 2nd coin, your total will be $10 and you can add one more coin for $2.
    After you add a 3rd coin, your total will be $12 and you can add one more coin for $4. 
    After you add a 4th coin, your total will be $16 and you can add one more coin for $4
    After you add a 5th coin, your total will be $20 and you can add one more coin for $1. 
    After you add a 6th coin, your total will be $21 and you can add one more coin for $3.50.
 
- When you finish with a box click a button to add your keepers to the shopping cart and move to the next box. 
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Offline Ardatirion

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 12:49:56 pm »
And don't forget to check those ridiculously overpriced junk boxes, too. I paid an absurd 15 pounds for this ugly little LRB.

Offline cliff_marsland

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2010, 01:01:44 pm »
That Forum idea sounds pretty darn fun.

Pick bins can be any price, I guess.  The difference between a junk box and pick bin become murky at some point.  At the last coin show I went to, $20,000 gold Ptolemy coins were casually arranged in a pile.  I ended up going through a hoard of VF-XF Licinius folles, and bought one because it was so darn cute.

Another dealer had a $100 pick box which had a Hadrian Alexandria Tet I really liked, but I wanted a Solidus at the time and didn't want to eat into my budget.

The last physical junkbox of any size that I've been through was while visiting HJB.  It took some effort, but I got my money's worth, finding some scarce stuff.

Offline dougsmit

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2010, 03:28:09 pm »
That Forum idea sounds pretty darn fun.


I agree and that may be just the point.  Many 'collectors' seem to be immune from the fun that others of use derive from the hobby.  I don't know if Joe's boxes will contain anything that I want to add to my collection but the idea is what I believe the hobby needs to push it into another generation.  We have a charity called 'Ancient Coins for Education' where school kids are given a first ancient coin and offered the opportunity to earn others through essay contests and the like.  They graduate and we turn them loose on eBay with some wonderful coins and horrific fakes all stirred in one pot.  Sure they have the option of paying someone to select their next coins but I recall being a collector that age and preferring to hunt down my next conquest without some old guy telling me it was a lousy choice.  I hope it works out and starts something worthwhile in the hobby.  Perhaps we will insure there is something worth talking about in this section of Forvm (I sense a Sticky post coming here). 

Hopefully, Ardatirion, there will be an occasional Hanniballianus and you will let it ride for one of us who lacks the type

Joe's plan shows a couple really commendable features.  Pricing points rewarding multiple purchases and lowering the toll on things that survive the first round of frenzy sound like a good plan.  Those of us in the running for the title of 'Cheapest Collector in the Hobby' (one of you once told me I ranked second in this regard) can play along and see if we get anything. 

A game for those willing to play:  I picked the attached five coins out of a pot (actually plastic bag with about a thousand similar coins) at the Baltimore show in late 1999.  That is long enough ago that the pickout price is no longer relevant but I did get a 10% discount because I bought five.  The game:  Which was the one that 'made my day' that day?  Which (and how many?) did I buy because I needed five to get the discount? 

Offline Mark Z

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2010, 03:41:42 pm »
All of them? ;)

mz

Offline quisquam

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2010, 04:01:20 pm »
The game:  Which was the one that 'made my day' that day?

It's the third coin with VICTORIA CARPICA-reverse, I guess. Nice find!

Stefan

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2010, 06:42:56 pm »
I picked this one up for $3. Its not a Hanniballianus but still.

Offline SC

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2010, 08:53:27 am »
Thanks for the heads up on the forum plan Joe.  It sounds great, and innovative.  I just hope it comes out at a point in the summer when I am around a computer.....

Shawn
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Offline dougsmit

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 10:25:54 am »

I'm not sure if it would be better to sort them by type (just Roman/Greek/Byzantine/other) or put them all together.



Joe, or any dealer starting such a plan, will have to address several questions like this.  One way of looking at it would be that sorting would allow customers to avoid looking at things they don't collect but I'm not sure that is a good thing.  Perhaps seeing those Greek/Asian/whatever mixed in will cause some buyers to get interested in another area.  From a dealer's standpoint, I'd think more people collecting more things would be better.  If I were doing it (and I'm no businessperson) I'd sort only by starting price - the $100 box, $50 box, $20 box, $5 box etc. and let the buyers take it from there.   One thing this might accomplish is to show beginners that the same $$$ will get you a great coin of one category, a middling one of another or a scungy example of a high end genre.  Many beginners come to ancient coins when they discover that the price of a semi-key nickel will get you a great looking piece of history.  Mixed boxes could suggest additional opportunities to spend our every last cent. 

On the other hand, will customers be driven away by too many strange coins that they have no way to identify?  I recall looking through a junk box of very well mixed Asian coins trying to find medieval things I collect but avoid some of the modern things that I do not.   There were some interesting looking things in the box that I'm not terribly sure of the date within 500 years.  I didn't buy them.  Here lately a major factor whether I buy a coin or not is whether I think I have the resources to ID it. 

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 02:06:28 pm »
I'm not sure if it would be better to sort them by type (just Roman/Greek/Byzantine/other) or put them all together.

It will be some of both I think.  When I get a new bulk lot, it may go into a new box and be all the same type.  But when they are reduced, they may go into another box and get mixed together.  If I have a small group, I may add it to a box where it may not really belong.  I don't plan to have a firm rule.   Each box will have to have some sort of name.  One might be "Late Roman" another might be Mixed $5, or whatever.   
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Offline areich

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2010, 02:14:50 pm »
These things will work themselves out I just want to make sure you know that I love this idea.  :)
Andreas Reich

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2010, 02:23:36 pm »
yeah me too. really curious about how it'll look now too.

Offline crawforde

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 04:59:07 pm »
This does sound fun, I bought my first Greek and Chinese coins from junk boxes, and now focus on a type I never even thought about when I started collecting.  A whole new piece of history to look into.

Offline abcoin

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Re: The Joy of "Junk" Boxes
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2010, 12:18:30 am »
Joe, that does sound like a wonderful and fun new idea, especially if you don't live anywhere near a coin shop that deals in ancients.  There's only one coin shop in my town, and the nearest one that has any ancient coin selection at all is over 200 miles away! 

 

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