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Author Topic: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection  (Read 7138 times)

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Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2015, 03:21:59 pm »
My sprog will be bringing her new haul of ancients into school for a show-and-tell next week. She is still of an age where the grasp of her little fingers is a little slippy. So I wont be surprised if some random builders at the school site, some years from now, triumphantly announce the discovery of some ancient coins. After getting her Nero, Vespasian, Faustina and Alex she asked if maybe I had a Caesar Augustus (NOT, she clarified, the same person as Julius Caesar) or an Antony (who, she said, was unfriendly with Augustus) to spare. I think I'd be wasting my time offering her LRBs, she's past that before she even arrived. 8 years old! Of course we all think our own are prodigies, but if she'd started playing violin like Menuhin I'd have been less impressed than when she clarified for me the differences between Julius C., Augustus and Antony. All learnt at school.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2015, 09:36:08 pm »
My sprog will be bringing her new haul of ancients into school for a show-and-tell next week. She is still of an age where the grasp of her little fingers is a little slippy. So I wont be surprised if some random builders at the school site, some years from now, triumphantly announce the discovery of some ancient coins.

Hi Andrew,

 :) :) :)

Either that, or they will think the coins fell out of the time capsule in the cornerstone. But then the building would have to be 2,000 years old.:)

Meepzorp

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2015, 05:01:25 pm »
Bringing us back to coins ... At NYINC a random selection of Roman Republican collectors usually assemble for lunch on the Wednesday before the bourse (ie yesterday). It's  a shared tab affair, and we swap stories of acquisitions, talk about the market, avoidance of forgeries, rumours of hoards, and bring show and tell items. All very relevant for a collectors group. This year I brought printed hardback copies of my collection as described in the first post of this thread. I had a few spare by the time I reached the NYINC venue on the Waldorf 18th floor. By the time I left, all those spares had fallen into the hands of one or other collector who said nice things about the photo book and coins within... No doubt one will appear in a Kolbe sale years from now, entitled "mystery collection of Roman Republican coins" or something like that. The photo books really do look terrific, and I'd encourage other collectors to try the same. So long as your camera is capable of shooting a whole tray of coins in one shot it's an easy enough project, took less than a day all-in.

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2015, 06:17:16 pm »
Andrew,
Did you acquire anything of interest ?

I did not get a chance to bid live on anything this time as I like to do,spending all the time showing houses as this is our busy season here.

Adrian
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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 10:45:49 pm »
Bringing us back to coins ... At NYINC a random selection of Roman Republican collectors usually assemble for lunch on the Wednesday before the bourse (ie yesterday). It's  a shared tab affair, and we swap stories of acquisitions, talk about the market, avoidance of forgeries, rumours of hoards, and bring show and tell items. All very relevant for a collectors group. This year I brought printed hardback copies of my collection as described in the first post of this thread. I had a few spare by the time I reached the NYINC venue on the Waldorf 18th floor. By the time I left, all those spares had fallen into the hands of one or other collector who said nice things about the photo book and coins within... No doubt one will appear in a Kolbe sale years from now, entitled "mystery collection of Roman Republican coins" or something like that. The photo books really do look terrific, and I'd encourage other collectors to try the same. So long as your camera is capable of shooting a whole tray of coins in one shot it's an easy enough project, took less than a day all-in.

Hi Andrew,

I guess it is sort of like the RBW book, which I don't have yet. I plan on ordering it, along with the Essays Russo book, within a week or so. Of course, the difference, if I understand it correctly, is that the RBW book is a collection of several auction catalogs.

If you ever "finish" your RR collection, maybe you should publish a reference book. Or, if you decide to sell your entire collection in one auction, that auction catalog may become a collector's item in the future - sort of like RBW, Vlasto, or Ratto-Cote.

Meepzorp

Offline JBF

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2015, 12:32:37 am »
Of course, that is one strategy for collecting.
Buy the coins, write the definitive book on the area.
Sell the coins now that everybody is excited to learn about that area.
Of course, it probably works best when writing about obscure
areas that nobody (else) knows about.  Spangler and Sayles did
that for, I believe it was Turkmenistan(??) coins.

Of course, that wouldn't work for me, as far as coins are concerned,
I am half bulimic (I binge, but I don't purge). ;)

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2015, 06:26:20 am »
Of course, that is one strategy for collecting.
Buy the coins, write the definitive book on the area.
Sell the coins now that everybody is excited to learn about that area.
Of course, it probably works best when writing about obscure
areas that nobody (else) knows about.  Spangler and Sayles did
that for, I believe it was Turkmenistan(??) coins.

Quote from: Meepzorp on January 08, 2015, 10:45:49 pm
Hi Andrew,

I guess it is sort of like the RBW book, which I don't have yet. I plan on ordering it, along with the Essays Russo book, within a week or so. Of course, the difference, if I understand it correctly, is that the RBW book is a collection of several auction catalogs.

If you ever "finish" your RR collection, maybe you should publish a reference book. Or, if you decide to sell your entire collection in one auction, that auction catalog may become a collector's item in the future - sort of like RBW, Vlasto, or Ratto-Cote.

Meepzorp

No it isn't remotely like the RBW book, nor is it remotely definitive! For one thing there's no text.

All I did was make something as easy, quick and delicious as cup-cakes, not a banquet for a head of state. I don't want to confuse something which was trivially easy and which I gave out as lunchtime gifts, with something which was very hard indeed. I printed 10 for a cost of $500. All are now gone.

The photo book took me all of 2 hours for the photography, several hours for photo editing (the coins near the extreme edges of the photos needed some enhanced contrast, and bright silver in the centre of the trays needed some toning down) another hour or two using an online program to make the photo book (getting the pagination, centering and borders), and 20 minutes to checkout. Overall effort including cups of tea, one day and a few evening sessions tweaking the photo editing.

In contrast the RBW book took me one whole year to integrate the two catalogues, reorder the coins, correct descriptions, weed out problem coins, write extensive numismatic footnotes, edit and layout, and my long paper in essays Russo took me two to three years to research write and edit.

Anyone can make these photobooks. The exact content of mine is as described in the first message in this thread. It's easy, and not to be mistaken with serious works of numismatic research and publication, which are very difficult indeed.

Offline genexs

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2015, 02:14:43 pm »
... At NYINC a random selection of Roman Republican collectors usually assemble for lunch on the Wednesday before the bourse (ie yesterday). It's  a shared tab affair, and we swap stories of acquisitions, talk about the market, avoidance of forgeries, rumours of hoards, and bring show and tell items. All very relevant for a collectors group. This year I brought printed hardback copies of my collection as described in the first post of this thread. I had a few spare by the time I reached the NYINC venue on the Waldorf 18th floor. By the time I left, all those spares had fallen into the hands of one or other collector who said nice things about the photo book and coins within... No doubt one will appear in a Kolbe sale years from now, entitled "mystery collection of Roman Republican coins" or something like that. The photo books really do look terrific, and I'd encourage other collectors to try the same. So long as your camera is capable of shooting a whole tray of coins in one shot it's an easy enough project, took less than a day all-in.

I'm one of the attendees of the RR Lunch, and one of the lucky recipients of Andrew's book!!! Thank you, Andrew! Creating such a book is certainly something every collector should consider.

best,
Gene S

Offline manpace

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2015, 10:33:57 pm »
LOL Andrew, I just noticed you put your Lorenzino dagger-and-hat bronze in the slot reserved for an EID MAR.  Much better than an empty spot; must take the sting off for sure.

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2015, 08:52:32 am »
*Looks at collection* *Looks at mine* *Weeps a little*  But no really! Epic collection! I work in a small museum in England and I can guarantee you have more coin than we do! Although we do own a mummy so I guess we win on that scale... But it seems like there are people from all ages and backgrounds on this forums, some with families, some starting families and people like me who are just students in university. Do tell me, how long did it take to acquire this collection?

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2015, 10:10:08 am »
*Looks at collection* *Looks at mine* *Weeps a little*  But no really! Epic collection! I work in a small museum in England and I can guarantee you have more coin than we do! Although we do own a mummy so I guess we win on that scale... But it seems like there are people from all ages and backgrounds on this forums, some with families, some starting families and people like me who are just students in university. Do tell me, how long did it take to acquire this collection?

30 years. The first coin in my current collection dates from 1984.

The scale and quality were, as I've said, based on economical buying, making sure I check every possible source, getting good offers on coins via relationships with dealers and collectors, making offers when appropriate, looking for swap opportunities, and getting fair prices and quick turnover for coins sold when upgrading (many have been consigned to Forum). In principle, anyone on a reasonable professional salary can form a collection such as this over some time. So, as you are in university now, I'm sure that, if you want, and if you will be prepared to allocate a fair proportion of your eventual salary, and spend time amassing expertise, and buy with skill and diligence, you will also, in time, form a world-class collection. It's just a question of dedication.

I wonder what my collection will look like in 30 years from now (when I'll be 81). No doubt I'll still be collecting.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2015, 09:25:25 pm »
I wonder what my collection will look like in 30 years from now (when I'll be 81). No doubt I'll still be collecting.

Hi Andrew,

I hope so!!! :)

And I hope so in my case too!!! ;D

And I'm only 4 years younger than you.

Mr. Lindgren was still actively collecting and also ran a coin dealer business well into his late 80s (almost 90 years old!!!). :o

Meepzorp

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2015, 08:37:23 am »
Hi Andrew,

To begin with, thanks for the pictures!

Being fairly new to ancient coin collecting, I came across a few roadblocks that you may be able to help shed some light on.  I hear alot of advice from these posts about great/cheap aquisitions, but like one's 'favourite fishing spot' they're never revealed.  Whithout access to these 'sources'  It would seem that I would never get turn-around coin(s) to work with.

There are so many fakes as well, so my personal searches might very easily be completely in vain; and not without risk of coin collecting 'death' so to speak.  We all seem to want to be considered 'middle class' but there is a huge grey area in this category and I'll admit that my budget floats between $100-$300 at its good times and $50 in its low times.  I'm sure many newcomers might relate.

Do you think there is an approach to bettering my situation, or should I just be content on my budget buying from Forvm and similar dealers for set prices?

Matt


Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2015, 11:52:56 am »
Quote from: Meepzorp on February 04, 2015, 10:29:00 am
Hi Andrew,

To begin with, thanks for the pictures!

Being fairly new to ancient coin collecting, I came across a few roadblocks that you may be able to help shed some light on.  I hear alot of advice from these posts about great/cheap aquisitions, but like one's 'favourite fishing spot' they're never revealed.  Whithout access to these 'sources'  It would seem that I would never get turn-around coin(s) to work with.

There are so many fakes as well, so my personal searches might very easily be completely in vain; and not without risk of coin collecting 'death' so to speak.  We all seem to want to be considered 'middle class' but there is a huge grey area in this category and I'll admit that my budget floats between $100-$300 at its good times and $50 in its low times.  I'm sure many newcomers might relate.

Do you think there is an approach to bettering my situation, or should I just be content on my budget buying from Forvm and similar dealers for set prices?

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Most collectors of ancient coins are not wealthy. The overwhelming majority of us are average, middle-class people. You hear about the wealthy ones because they become famous.

Your budget is actually higher than most collectors.

I'm gonna let you in on another secret (or teach you a "trick"). Try to establish a relationship with a dealer at "the ground level". In other words, try doing business with a dealer when he is just starting out (very close to the inception of his business). And routinely buy coins from him. Eventually, you will develop a special relationship with him, probably without even realizing it. He will remember you as someone who routinely fed his business in his early years. And he will be eternally grateful for that. He is the most likely candidate to develop a "special relationship" with. You "grow with them". Once his business gets established, he will be inclined to cut you great deals or offer you "first crack" at certain types of coins, before the rest of his customers have a chance to buy them. That is what happened to me with regard to 2 dealers, without me even consciously realizing it. I didn't plan it. It just "developed".

There is one dealer who routinely offers me fantastic deals. He routinely sells coins to me at or below their wholesale value. And there is another dealer who offers me "first crack" at any Campania coins that come his way, before he offers them for sale to the rest of this customers. I've been routinely buying coins from these 2 particular dealers from the very beginning (almost from the inception of their businesses).

And stay away from ebay!

Meepzorp

Hi Matthew

Meepzorp has already given excellent answers to the two questions you asked of me, so I can only support what he says: that 99% of even serious collectors are ordinary working folks (like me), that your levels of budget, dispersed with care over decades, is sufficient to build you a collection as good as mine (my median purchase price was for a long time at the $100 level and it's only crept up in recent years because I've been selling 5 coins for every one I buy hence releasing funds for better stuff; I've also chosen to put windfall receipts such as bonuses into higher end coins) and the key to building a really great collection is time, expertise and relationships. One can't overestimate the value of relationships. If a dealer buys a group of 20 coins, and turns immediately to a collector he knows and offers a choice of 5 for half of the cost of the lot of 20, the dealer is covered for half his risk whilst still having most of the coins in hand whereas the collector has the immense luxury of being able to choose the absolutely best from a large lot which will certainly include rarities and high quality pieces. It may not work exactly like this, but the slow methodical building of relationships over time with both other collectors and a few dealers pays off after time. I myself sometimes offer friends the opportunity to pick a group from my duplicates at an aggregate "price originally paid by me" for a group lot. That achieves for me, on balance, about the same result as consigning, whereas the collector(s) have the luxury of being able to pick rarities and quality without competition or commissions, and at historic prices too. Relationship trades work for everyone in lubricating the process of getting the best coins into the best collections. But it may take a great deal of time, many years, to get to the point that Meep and I describe, and as Meep says, you may not even realise it's happening when someone emails you to say they've some new arrivals you may be interested in.

It does all take time and effort, in really getting to know the market and in knowing the coins in depth too so that when a real good opportunity comes up you know to press the buy button immediately and not wait an hour or a day or a week. There are collector dividends that flow from keeping yourself well informed, so read the books and spend every moment you can reading and looking at the internet and handling as many genuine coins as you can. But it all takes time, so be patient too!
Anyway I want to thank Meepzorp for preempting my answer with some excellent observations that I hope help.

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2015, 01:10:27 pm »
Thanks for all of the insight.  I took a long time to warm-up to this messageboard because of my fear of fake coins, and lack of extensive knowledge on the subject.

I'm trying to post to the best of my ability; sharing what I do know, and hopefully pointing out things that newer collectors than me might be going through.

I'm very surprised that ancient coin collecting isn't far more popular, but a little thankfull that due to this it is affordable;)

It does seem that there is hope for a great collection one day!

Matt

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2015, 02:15:04 pm »
Matt,
I think what you have to spend on coins is much higher than what most collectors are able to do,I too quit buying on Ebay a few years ago and this site is a good place to find coins.Joe does do a couple of sales a year where you can get an additional 10% off and he does offer a lay away program and also adds new coins daily at all price ranges.

If you want to have more money to spend look at another area you know well where you can buy items then re-sell at a profit and use that to buy coins as that's what I do .

I also like to buy bulk lots of coins which are hard to find,keep the ones I want and sell the rest and I generally get my money back plus the coins I keep,you may not get the exact coin you want that way but I found it to be a good way to start a collection.Over a 3 year period I ended up with about 500 coins, 200 or so I sold off right away and used that to buyer nicer coins.What I have though is nothing like what Andrew has.

I enjoy more the thrill of the hunt rather than holding onto coins until the day I die.I just liquidated the bulk of my coins and shipped 300 of them to Joe to sell for me.Some of the better coins approx 50 I kept which does happen to include a gold aureus of Vespasian not the best example but not the worst and one of the rarest denarius of Elagabalus. I also just bought some small group lots of coins not the greatest examples but a good buy for what I paid.They might end up on this site also within the next few months if I do not give them away to friends.

The money I get from Joe might go for higher grade coins or to start the cycle again and then sell off after 3 years keep some of them to add to the existing 50  I have.

My father who is in the UK I am in the USA just started collecting British Stamps again and I am in 2 minds to start collecting as well as it's something we can talk about and have in common.So a stamp collection might be in the works.

My forte is mostly early 17th century Bibles that's where the extra money comes from buying and selling those.

At the moment I have 8 of them (Bibles) and cannot decide whether to sell or hold as I like collecting them as well.

Adrian




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Offline Matthew C5

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2015, 10:58:00 pm »
Feel free to laugh at my take on this, but I recently sold a few extra guitars and drum cymbals to get some nicer roman coins.  I settled on an idea of getting one showcase coin for every Roman imperial denomination(minus the gold).  I'm ok with the common coins if they look nice; and they will get a better reaction from non-collectors;)

Collecting Bibles seems very interesting.  I used to also collect hockey cards(still have many albums/boxes full).  Then there is also another new obsession that I've gotten swallowed into which is self-collected mineral specimens, but I leave the high-end purchases for coins only.

Maybe I could sell some minerals?? Hmmm...you got me thinking

Sorry Andrew, I've found my way off topic.

Perhaps your collection could bridge the old Roman republic, to the coins which accompanied the revival of republicanism?  Just a fun passing thought.

Offline Carausius

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2015, 11:05:13 pm »
Feel free to laugh at my take on this, but I recently sold a few extra guitars and drum cymbals to get some nicer roman coins.

I won't laugh.  In fact, about 15 years ago, I sold excess guitars and 1960s Fender tube amplifiers to refurbish an old MG automobile.  Currently, I'm thinking about selling the old MG to buy more coins.  Hobbies ebb and flow, and sometimes you need to adjust your holdings to go with the flow!!

Offline Molinari

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2015, 08:14:00 am »
Quote from: Carausius on February 05, 2015, 07:46:18 am
Matt:
If you are in the U.S., do not follow Strato's tax advice unless you first discus it with an accountant or other tax professional. You cannot write-off "hobby" costs in the U.S. unless you claim income from that venture for a certain number of years over a 3 or 5-year period. I don't recall the specific rules, but there are very specific tax rules for this sort of thing designed to prevent hobbyists from playing a system designed for businesses.

 +++

Offline Molinari

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2015, 10:59:40 am »
A hobby costs money, more in the short term, perhaps less in the long term if done wisely, and that's about the bottom line


Unless I am rationalizing a purchase to my wife  ;D

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2015, 11:11:06 am »
A hobby costs money, more in the short term, perhaps less in the long term if done wisely, and that's about the bottom line


Unless I am rationalizing a purchase to my wife  ;D

I suspect we are all out-rationalised by our better halves explaining how the family has profited due to purchasing a dress / bag / sports car (delete as appropriate) whose price has been cut in the sales from insane to merely unaffordable. That's why our partners look on our hobby with amused condescension and allow us to claim we are "investing" in coin collecting. "Investing" in another girlfriend, or heaven forbid, a second family, now that's what would be a concern. $100 on a Roman coin, $200 on a family evening out, $500 on a new dress... who is having the last laugh? No wonder our partners are all pretty indulgent about our "expensive" hobby.

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: Highlights from my Roman Republican Collection
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2015, 11:32:24 am »
Lol!  I've been trying to get my wife to find good deals on nice kitchen-type items to rid me of the guilt of my last purchases.  I had an ok budget since I came across a little extra money, and after the exchange from canadian dollars and the insured shipping....well I had to tell her that it was a $$$-ish amount!


 

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