Gringgotts, MSR, Vulpex, et al...there is no magic bullet.

[Mayadigger]

Ave!

Gringgotts mixes, Mint State Restoration solution, Vulpex soap, et al...there is no magic bullet for cleaning any ancient artifact or coin. Nothing works better than hand mechanical cleaning.

To begin the discussion, can we all agree that cleaning coins/artifacts in olive oil is no longer recommended and that all antiquities should start with simple distilled water soaks before anything else? If after a few weeks of DW soaks and mechanical cleaning with a toothbrush or common dental pick with no real results you may wish to consider the following products:

I'll try to explain the pros and cons of each of the following, at least from my experience, in a terse manner as it would take pages to cover each product completely.

Gringgotts Mixes -

As the Alpha-tester for each of Bruce's 4 mixes, I believe that I have a general knowledge of how each works and under what circumstances.

All GG Mixes, when used as described, work well to loosen dirt and encrustations and keep patina intact (other than GG #3 which strips all patina). The real trick to using GG mixes is knowing when to remove them from the various solutions, return them to DW soaks for further hand/mechanical cleaning. This takes practice. Most beginners leave their coins too long in the soaks, trust me. The rule of thumb is to always remove them BEFORE they appear to be done. Any coin left too long in GG's Mixes will have, over time, a very loose and unsound patina.

Mint State Restoration Solution -

MSR can be your worst enemy for cleaning coins and your best friend for cleaning heavily encrusted artifacts. MSR is strong. For cleaning encrusted coins, we suggest that you cut the solution by half with DW and soak for just an hour or two, brush and then repeat until you're happy with the result. See below for an before/after encrusted coin via this method. Any original patina will be removed and you'll have to re-patina the coin, as seen, but the final result is much more gentle to the surface than lye soaks. But for heavily encrusted copper alloy artifacts with bronze disease, it really is your best friend. As seen in the following photos. Use the MSR full strength and it will not only cure the BD but will also dissolve the centuries-old encrustations to reveal all the details that you did not know were there.

Again, MSR is not a magic bullet, just another way to help you clean and restore your coins and artifacts.

Vulpex Soap -

If you have simple dirt/mud-covered coins, this super-concentrated soap will, again, be a boon for uncleaned coins and artifacts. This soap is so consecrated that it only needs just a few drops or two per cup to work. We use this soap as seen above to clean all of our muddy ancient artifacts. Add one TP of VS to one cup of DW and simmer for 1/2 hour and allow to cool. Remove and clean mechanically with a scalpel/common DP an SBBB.

Let us know your thoughts and...

Best regards, Kevin

[SC]

I would be interested in your views on where pre-lim comes in.

Also, one small quibble.  While I agree that olive oil is not to be recommended (for coin cleaning) I don't agree "that all antiquities should start with simple distilled water soaks before anything else". 

There are many times when I work on coins that have never been soaked.  This can be on coins in good condition that only need some dirt scrapped off with sharpened wood or even metal tools.  It is important on some very bad soft patina coins where any soaking will destroy what details is there - these coins will never be great but some detail can be saved by working dry.  In addition I often skip any soaks on antiquities.

So I would modify it to say start with an assessment of the coin/object and if any soak or chemical is intended then by all means start with DW.  But don't just soak everything.

Shawn

[CNS]

Whats all this about not using olive oil? Can anyone share a link discussing it?

[SC]

Search olive oil in the uncleaned thread, or just on forum in general, and you will find literally dozens of postings about it.

The vast majority of cleaners believe that, at best, it is no better than DW but is messier and more expensive.  At worst it is slightly acidic and can damage coins.  There are a few who believe otherwise, and that it has some cleaning uses.

But the discussion is scattered throughout many posts.

Shawn

[Lee S]

All excellent advice so far... But I feel I must add my 2 Krona's worth regarding olive oil...

    I have only ever had success with olive oil on one particular batch of uncleaned Roman coins... They were covered in thick black crud, and they resisted all other methods, ( I cant remember which Gringotts I tried, but it was one of the gentler ones ) but nothing touched it, I even tried electolysis but any detail came away with the crud leaving just pitted slugs. In the end I threw them into olive oil, occasionaly shaking the jar, and brushing them off, and changing the oil when it changed colour.. ( I guess every couple of months... ). After 12-18 months the crud had softened enough that brushing off with soap and water, and a little picking with a bamboo stick got many of them into a quite nice condition with jet black patina.

   So my opinion is that olive oil shouldn't be discounted, ( especially if your not in a hurry!! ) but also should not be the first method you try either.

   Best wishes,

Lee

[Mayadigger]

Ave Shawn, Lee, et al!

I would be interested in your views on where pre-lim comes in.

Also, one small quibble.  While I agree that olive oil is not to be recommended (for coin cleaning) I don't agree "that all antiquities should start with simple distilled water soaks before anything else". 

There are many times when I work on coins that have never been soaked.  This can be on coins in good condition that only need some dirt scrapped off with sharpened wood or even metal tools.  It is important on some very bad soft patina coins where any soaking will destroy what details is there - these coins will never be great but some detail can be saved by working dry.  In addition I often skip any soaks on antiquities.

So I would modify it to say start with an assessment of the coin/object and if any soak or chemical is intended then by all means start with DW.  But don't just soak everything. Shawn

Sorry Shawn, my bad, I misspoke as usual. I meant to say, "that all coins/antiquities that cannot be mechanically cleaned 'dry' should start with simple distilled water soaks."

Many uncleaned simple dirt/mud covered coins and artifacts may not need any sort of soak. On very dry/mud-covered coins that show a green patina below the dirt, anyone can use the simple 'press and flick' procedure. That is, using a sharp common curved scalpel blade to press into the dry dirt/mud and then give the blade a small but firm twist. Not enough pressure to dig into the patina, but just enough to 'flick' off a small segment of dry dirt. This is an easy process but it does take some practice. Like learning to ride a bike and getting your balance, once you understand how it works, it's as easy as Bob's Your Uncle.

In many cases, this 'press and flick' procedure is a real boon for cleaners. In most cases, not all of the dry dirt will flick off, mostly around the legends. Once you have your 'Flicked' coin done, you may wish to keep it as is, or continue cleaning. As your coin was dirt-covered from the start, you can now put in an DW soak and once the dirt is again soft, further clean with a common dental pick. Following all of the above, you'll have an patina-intact coin.

Best regards,

Kevin