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Author Topic: Phoenicia Arados - Silver  (Read 22437 times)

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Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2015, 02:12:57 pm »
Long overdue but well worth the wait, i have finally got my hands on my first Aradian Hemidrachm. Quite similar to the bronzes from the same period and devoid of any era date, these coins were more than likely struck between 260/242 B.C.

For a more in depth look at this coin please follow the link provided below.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2015/07/21/long-overdue-hemidrachm/

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 07:26:45 am »
Arados started producing Posthumous issues of Alexander III with palm tree and AP monogram in 245/244 B.C (year 15/16) and discontinued the series after sporadic minting in 165 B.C (year 94). The Aradian era date can be found in exerque under Zeus´s throne, only on the first minted coin of this series has the era date been omitted.

The era date on my coin can be read from right to left as follows,  …. … -  or 1111 111 10 (17 - 243/42 B.C).

Additional images are available on my website, please follow the link provided.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/sporadic-minting/


Offline djmacdo

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2015, 12:02:52 pm »
Hard to see crucial details in such an angled photo.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2015, 04:15:01 pm »
Hard to see crucial details in such an angled photo.

Then in future please follow the links i provide and allow me to decide how and what i post in my topics.


Offline djmacdo

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 10:37:01 pm »
You are, as always, free to post anyway you wish--upside down and sideways if you wish.  I simply remarked that the angled photograph made it hard to see crucial details.  Accept that or reject it as you wish.  No need to get snarky over the simple observation.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2015, 02:03:43 am »
It was your simple observation i found bewildering. If you had read my post and followed the link as i suggested, then maybe a more worthwhile comment would have been forthcomming. Do not participate in my topics if you are unwilling to add to their content, stating the obvious without contributing is insulting.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2016, 03:38:58 pm »
The fourth Aradian series obol (Persian period)

For the fourth series of Aradian coins, the marine deity was replaced with an Hellenistic type bust on the obverse, this deity was of an oriental persuasion. The pointed beard can be compared with that of Syrian reliefs from the ancient city of Persepolis, the eye and laureated head are reminiscent of attic coins of the mid-fifth century B.C. This new type appeared on all the coins of this series, including the stater, tetrobol & obol.

There were to be subtle changes to the reverse of this series, the galley (1), row of shields and Phoenician eye were to remain and symbolized naval strength. Below the galley, two or three wavy lines could be seen representing the sea, this replaced the numerous marine animals seen on previous series (2). Phoenician letters aleph and mem can be seen just above the bulwark.

1: Galley without oars.

2: A series of small denominations were minted to supplement the larger coins, these depicted a marine deity and fish.


Please follow the provided link for the coins attribution.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/the-fourth-aradian-series-obol-persian-period/

Offline quadrans

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2016, 01:48:02 am »
One of the nices pieces this series.. +++

Very nice summary on you web site   :) +++

 Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2016, 06:57:58 am »
Quote from: quadrans on July 13, 2016, 01:48:02 am
One of the nices pieces this series.. +++

Very nice summary on you web site   :) +++

 Regards
 Q.

Thanks for your kind words Q.

For those of you who haven´t made it across cyberspace, here are the eight known coins to date.

Offline Sam

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2016, 07:14:23 am »
 +++ WOW  +++
Sam Mansourati

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2016, 07:02:50 am »
Phoenicia, Arados 380-350 B.C

AR 13.55mm (Thickness 3.08mm), weight 3.11g, die axis = 9h (270 degrees), Tetrobol.

Obverse: Laureate and bearded head of Baál Arwad with full eye right.

Reverse: Galley sailing right above waves (three lines) with figure of Pataikos right, all within dotted border. Phoenician letters aleph (´) & mem above.


A well-centered strike and clear monogram on reverse, obverse very worn.


Ref: HGC 10, Pg.40 No.14; Betylon Pg.86 No.11.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/ar-no-begp-t-380-350m9-of/

Offline quadrans

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2016, 05:16:21 pm »
Quote from: Martin Rowe on July 13, 2016, 06:57:58 am
Quote from: quadrans on July 13, 2016, 01:48:02 am
One of the nices pieces this series.. +++

Very nice summary on you web site   :) +++

 Regards
 Q.

Thanks for your kind words Q.

For those of you who haven´t made it across cyberspace, here are the eight known coins to date.

Great grup..

Q.

And last one are too...

Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2016, 07:49:11 am »
Rare Hemidrachm - série III

To my knowledge only one other confirmed example of this coin exists with era date 20 (240-239 B.C), Duyrat lists the coin as Newell 100 70399 and as belonging to ANS in New York. I searched the ANS database but unfortunately wasn’t able to locate the coin. 

There seems to be a control mark far right below the prow, the Phoenician letter is beth. The location of the letter is highly unusual,  i have never seen a control mark placed before the date on coins of Arados. One possibility is that the engraver on competition of the reverse die, forgot to leave room for the control mark and was then forced to cram the letter in before the date.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2016/10/04/rare-hemidrachm-serie-iii/


An 20 (240/239)

1.  1581 D8-R8, New York, ANS 1944 100 70399 Newell. 1,88 g, 12,5 mm, 12 h.
2.           D8b-R8b, Stockholm, collection Martin Rowe No.OK. 1,70 g, 13.18 mm, 11 h.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2016, 09:22:43 am »
Phoenicia, Arados 92-91 B.C

Tetradrachm.

Obverse: Veiled and turreted bust of Tyche, border of dots.

Reverse: Nike advancing left holding aphlaston and palm branch, in left field Aradian era date HΞP 168, below Phoenician letter qoph (Q) with Greek letters ΔC far bottom, AΡAΔIΩN in right field, all within wreath.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2016/10/04/ar-no-tna-168qhξp12-tet-ol/

Nero 30

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2016, 02:46:47 am »
It is fascinating, most beautiful bust of tyche ivhave seen, in a perfect condition, i was not aware of such Aradian large denominations even.
congratiolations Martin a very nice addition.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2016, 06:54:47 am »
Quote from: Nero 30 on October 05, 2016, 02:46:47 am
It is fascinating, most beautiful bust of tyche ivhave seen, in a perfect condition, i was not aware of such Aradian large denominations even.
congratiolations Martin a very nice addition.

The only Aradian coins to weigh more would have been Alexander III tetradrachms at around 17g.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/ar-no-ahlsz-4dr-12-lz/

Thanks Nero 30.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2016, 12:54:40 pm »
Fire Damaged Drachm Fourrée ?


When i first spotted this coin for sale, i assumed it was a fake. But after returning for a second look on the sellers website, i became more positive about the coins authenticity. My curiosity got the better of me and i purchased the coin for a very modest amount.

With coin in hand, it does appear to be a fourrée.

The iconography, weight & size are all within the norm for an era date 99 (161-160 B.C) drachm. The silver content is still present over the predominant copper base, as one would expect of a fourrée. Further details become clearer under the magnifying glass. It appears that the coin as been damaged by fire, there´s blistering or bubbling on the reverse and a wavy line where melting has occurred. I have highlighted these areas of interest in the image below.

The reference for this type is, Duyrat 2005 Pg.78 No.2823-2852; HGC10 Pg.18 Ref.63; BMC Phoenicia Pg.21 No.157.

I searched all of my available resources for a similar fourrée but came up empty handed.

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2016, 11:01:00 am »
I have seen a couple of fourrees recovered from salty areas where the silver was largely corroded away but the copper was in fairly good shape.  I wonder if that could be the case here.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2016, 11:20:38 am »
I have seen a couple of fourrees recovered from salty areas where the silver was largely corroded away but the copper was in fairly good shape.  I wonder if that could be the case here.

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to comment.

I see similarities with both forms of degradation, so would you consider the blistering and wavy lines a product of salt corrosion and not fire ?

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2016, 08:58:27 am »
Fire could certainly do that--the more I think about it, the more I like fire.  The coin has certainly been through some trauma, harsh environment of some sort--hot or salty and wet or just chemically hostile to silver, but I do like the idea of fire.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2016, 11:49:57 am »
Marine Deity Dagôn ?

According to Palestine and Phoenician history, both Dagôn and his brother El-Kronos were worshipped together as equals. Many scholars believe that the merman images found in Palestine and Phoenicia are that of Dagôn, this depiction as survived the ages but still deemed controversial.


Phoenicia, Arados 400-380 B.C

AE 15.54mm (Thickness 2.03mm), weight 2.85g, die axis = 4h (90 degrees). Tetrobol

Obverse: Figure of Marine Deity right (Ba´al Arwad), lower part of body fish-like with lines representing scales,  fish (Dolphin) held in both hands, border of dots of flan.

Reverse: Galley right with eye on prow, row of shields along bulwark, winged seahorse (hippocamp) right, dotted border, incuse square.


For additional images and attribution, please follow provided link.

https://phoeniciancoins.wordpress.com/2016/10/26/marine-deity-dagon/

Offline Canaan

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2016, 05:29:03 pm »
Hello Martin, while i do not think this Marine diety is Dagon because as i think Dagon is a god for grain and agriculture and it was associated with fish and fishgod in the middle ages when the word דג or "Dag" in hebrew meaning fish was associated to it, All if i recall well :) , it such a charming coin, Another issue with the discription: I see the diety holding the fish (Dolphin) in one hand!!!!
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Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2016, 05:46:32 am »
Hi Canaan,

There are many unanswered questions in respect to who is depicted on the coins of Arados. This is a very complex and difficult subject to tackle and one which perhaps will never be solved.

Your FORVM name suggests that you are familiar with Hebrew, have you read “The Conflict between El and Ba´al in Canaanite Religion or the Ugaritic Ba´al Cycle ?

Dagôn was indeed associated with being the god of grain in the middle Euphrates and old Babylonia. It´s only when the Phoenicians & Palestinians adopted Dagôn as one of their own gods that certain scholars, possibly incorrectly, translated the diminutive form of Hebrew to that of fish ( דג ). I believe when translated, this would give us the name of Dagôn, meaning “little fish” or “what belongs to the fish”, thus translates as “fish-stump” (fish like body) ?

There are other options such as Yamm (Yam), an ancient god from the semitic word meaning sea. He was worshipped by the semitic religions including Phoenicia and the Canaanites. Perhaps Dagôn is an adaptation of Yamm, this was common practice in the ancient world i.e  Ba´al = Zeus ?

As i mentioned earlier, this subject is very sketchy and will most likely never be solved.

P.S All coins of this type depicting a marine deity hold in each hand a fish (dolphin). The majority of coins i am aware of show only one fish, the second is almost always of flan or just partially visible (see image below for fish in both hands).

Image credit CNG.

Offline Canaan

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2016, 12:22:11 pm »
I think you are right Martin, theere are some questions that will never be answered, i am some what familiar with Ba'al seasons cycle legend, I do not know if this marin diety is Yamm, as he was a fearful god and an enemy of Ba'al the loved god of phoenicians and Canaanites, but for sure this marin diety symbolizes the goods that the sea gives to fishermen and people in general.
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2016, 09:39:05 am »
And then there is the problem of multiple names applied to the same deity, common in this part of the world.  Look at all the names used for the Hebrew deity in the Hebrew Scriptures or all the names applied to the deity in Islam--many, of course, describing characteristics.  As time passed, too, there tended to be a lot of syncretism among deities, particularly during the Hellenistic period.  It all makes for a maze of names and deities!

 

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