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Author Topic: Phoenicia Arados - Silver  (Read 22476 times)

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Offline Arados

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« on: February 26, 2014, 01:58:30 pm »
I don't have any bronze coins from Aradus, but in my Greek coin gallery I do have a nice tetradrachm in the name of Alexander the Great.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5113&pos=15

Hello Callimachus,

Hope you weren't offended but i thought it would be appropriate to have a separate thread for silver coins of Arados, so what a fitting way to start this topic of but with your silver tetradrachm. In fact i was just flicking through HGC 10, which isn't the most reliable catalog for Aradian coins but serves it´s purpose and found a typing error on page 18. Your coin has been dated there as 96-95 B.C.  ::)

I also started this post for the benefit of furthering our knowledge and understanding of these fascinating coins, please feel free to contribute and join me on this Phoenician venture.

Offline Callimachus

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 05:28:08 pm »
Hi. No I am not offended.

I am a bit puzzled about the dating, though.

I got my dating information from Table G on page 416 of Martin J Price's book "The Coinage in the Name of ALexander the Great . . ."   Price #3396 is also listed as being from 196/5 BC on page 428 of the same book.

So should the typing error in your HGC 10 be 196/5 BC?

Offline n.igma

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 01:59:13 am »
From Forvm.... https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?favorities=79321&vpar=18&zpg=79321 ....

In 259 B.C., Arados increased her autonomy and dominated a federation of nearby cities including Gabala, Karne, Marathos and Simyra. Thus began the era of Aradus, to which the subsequent coins of the city are dated. Arados was not completely independent, however, the Seleukids retained overlordship.

On this basis, year 64 would correspond the the year 196/195 BCE.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Arados

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 02:04:44 am »
Yes, it should say 196/5 B.C.

Nothing to worry about, this does not effect your coin in anyway Callimachus, which i´m sure your quite aware of.

It is such an obvious typing error that even i managed to spot it.  +++  ;)

Offline Arados

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 07:08:57 am »
A little history leading up to and beyond the minting of my coin.

The peoples of Phoenicia, were descended from the Canaanites who inhabited the region of the Levant, later occupying the coastal areas of modern day Lebanon. Arwad was thought to be the first ever republic.

Timeline of Aradian History

c. 1050 B.C   Eygpt loses it´s imperial possessions in Canaan.

876 B.C         Ashurnasirpal II of Assyria makes Arwad a tributary during his conquest of Syria.

853 B.C         Matan-Ba´al and his alliance with neighbouring states, defeat Shalmaneser III of Assyria.

701 B.C        Assyria conquers all of Phoenicia, Abd-illhit has to pay tribute to his new masters.

664 B.C         Yakinlu submits one of his daughters and a dowry to the harem of Ashurbanipal of Assyria.

612-573 B.C  The Phoenician cities regain independence after the destruction of the Assyrian empire.

573-539 B.C  Babylonia conquers all of Phoenicia.

539 B.C          Phoenicia and its cities are submerged within the Persian Empire.

332 B.C          Strato joins forces with Alexander The Great in his conquest of Syria & Phoenicia.
                      Arwad (Arados) was renamed Antiochia in Pieria.

Thus starts the reign of the Seleucid Empire in Phoenicia.



Ba´al means in semitic, master or lord and was later to mean god of distinct character. As such, all rulers who bared the title Ba´al were later to be designated the universal god of fertility and were also awarded the title of Prince and Lord of the Earth (2). Ba´al was also known has the Lord of Rain and Dew.

In Phoenician he was to be known has Ba´al Shamen, Lord of the Heavens.

A Baalist or Baalite was the name given to the people who worshiped Ba´al.
 
(2)  The Arabs and Rabbinical hebrews used the phrase Baal to mean watered by a spring or an oasis.


Below, is one of my silver staters.

Phoenicia, Arados 348-338 B.C

AR 17.55mm (Thickness 5.40mm), weight 10.60g, die axis = 6h (180 degrees), Stater.

Obverse: Laureate head of Baál Arwad with full eye right.

Reverse: Galley sailing right above waves (three lines) with figure of Pataikos right, all within dotted square border. Phoenician letters nun (N), aleph (A) & mem (M) above.



Offline Arados

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 01:41:51 pm »
Ichthyomorphic Deity

The ichthyomorphic deity depicted on the obverse (see image) represents a local god worshipped at Arados, possibly Dagon who was associated with the sea. Although we only see the upper torso, he can also be found on other coins of Arados showing both human torso and a fish-like lower body. Unfortunately there are no indications of who the Satrap or King of Arados (Ba´al) was at that particular point in time.



Phoenicia, Arados 400-380 B.C

AR 8.24mm (Thickness 1.56mm), weight 0.73g, die axis = 11h (350 degrees), Obol.

Obverse: Laureate head of Ichthyomorphic deity right with bearded hair and plaits, holding dolphins in both hands with Phoenician letters aleph (´) & mem (M) in field. (Mem and Aleph means "Belonging to Arados")

Reverse: Prow of galley right, eye and four shields above, dolphin below all within incuse square.

Offline gordian_guy

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 06:48:21 pm »
I know that our esteemed colleague Arados collects mainly bronze but I thought that he might enjoy seeing a recent addition to my collection of Greek coins a tiny (9 mm) Obol from Aradus(Arados) depicting the Ubiquitous Galley reverse.

2014.317.4 Phoenicia, Arados (c 380-350 BC)

AR Obol, 9 mm; 0.74 g; 11h

Obverse: Laureate head of marine deity right.
Reverse: Phoenician script above :phoenician_alef_2: :phoenician_mem_1:; Galley right; double row of waves below.
Ref: cf BMC 45;
Note: I looked in Duyrat Arados, but she starts with the coinage of Alexander III, the Great, too late for this coins.

c.rhodes

Offline John Anthony

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 08:39:02 pm »
Very nice indeed!  8)

Offline Arados

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 04:42:08 am »
Thanks for your kind words Charley.

Betlyon describes your coin as follows....

Obv: Head of marine deity to right; with laurel wreath on head; hair and whiskers dotted; beard shown in lines; border of dots.

Rev:Aleph & Mem above galley to right; eye on prow; without any oars; row of shields above bulwark; ornament & standard on poop; below two lines representing waves, all within incus square.

Ref: Betlyon pg.86 no.13 pl.7.

There seems to be much confusing regarding the deity depicted on these coins. Hill refused to name any deity at all, Babylon named him Ba´al Arvad and Betlyon likened him to older coins of this type and could see no logical reasoning for changing the deity for the issue in question (your coin).

Work In Process
To be honest i was in the process of studying the obols, tetrobols and staters of this type and have managed to separate them into ten groups of distinct facial changes warranting a new look at what i believe to be individual rulers or governors (Satrap) depicted on this type. But alas, i have to confess that i have been sidetracked recently and have not had the opportunity or time to pursue this interesting topic further.

Thanks for sharing your wonderful coin charley.  ;) +++

P.S Would you mind if i merge this topic with Phoenician Arados - Silver ?

Offline TIF

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 06:25:55 am »
Betlyon likened him to older coins of this type and could see no logical reasoning for changing the deity for the issue in question (your coin). He does however go onto describe that the deity could possibly be a representation of Athena from the fifth and early fourth centuries.

With regards to the OP's coin, I've never seen Athena with a mustache and beard :D

Quote
Work In Process
To be honest i was in the process of studying the obols, tetrobols and staters of this type and have managed to separate them into ten groups of distinct facial changes warranting a new look at what i believe to be individual rulers or governors (Satrap) depicted on this type. But alas, i have to confess that i have been sidetracked recently and have not had the opportunity or time to pursue this interesting topic further.


Fantastic!  I'm looking forward to seeing your work.

Offline gordian_guy

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 08:33:54 am »
Thanks for your kind words Charley.

Betlyon describes your coin as follows....

Obv: Head of marine deity to right; with laurel wreath on head; hair and whiskers dotted; beard shown in lines; border of dots.

Rev:Aleph & Mem above galley to right; eye on prow; without any oars; row of shields above bulwark; ornament & standard on poop; below two lines representing waves, all within incus square.

Ref: Betlyon pg.86 no.13 pl.7.

There seems to be much confusing regarding the deity depicted on these coins. Hill refused to name any deity at all, Babylon named him Baal´Arvad and Betlyon likened him to older coins of this type and could see no logical reasoning for changing the deity for the issue in question (your coin). He does however go onto describe that the deity could possibly be a representation of Athena from the fifth and early fourth centuries.



Thanks for sharing your wonderful coin charley.  ;) +++

P.S Would you mind if i merge this topic with Phoenician Arados - Silver ?


Thank you for the information Arados. I did not know there was a Phoenician Arados Silver - but then again if you have been busy and unable to post it would have shifted down the list out of sight. I would be very happy to see it bubble back up to the top of the list. I have been following your bronze Arados regularly; yours and John Anthony's Nabataean posts fascinate me. I finally got the e-version of Duyrat's book on the Arados coinage - he covers provincial so it works for the Gordian III coins minted there. I understand begin way behind on posting updates. Please use my little fellow. What detail for something that small!!



Thanks every one for the comments. I look forward to the further adventures in the Coinage of Arados!!

c.rhodes

Offline gordian_guy

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Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 09:06:41 am »


Arados, Callimachus,

I remember this thread!! Very Happy to be a part of wonderful conversation and coins!! Thank you Arados and Callimachus for making this one happen. Fascinating subject!

c.rhodes

Offline marylannin

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 03:06:10 pm »
Gentlemen,

Although I do not collect coins from Arados, I follow these discussions because I have been fortunate to know Dr Frederique Duyrat, who is a "she" not a "he".

I am sure you would all enjoy meeting with her as much as I did, and to offer belated congratulations as head of the BnF Coins and Medals!

She is a very accomplished woman in the field of numismatics.

Mary

Associate Professor of History (1994), Doctor of History (University of Paris IV-Sorbonne, 2000), history and numismatics specialist classical and Hellenistic Near East, former research grant from the French Institute of Archaeology in the Near -orient Damascus (1996-1998), Frédérique Duyrat was a lecturer in ancient history at the University of Orleans from 2001 to 2009 before joining the department of coins and medals and antiques from the National Library of France in January 2010, as responsible for the collection of Greek coins. She is an associate researcher at Ernest Babelon Research Institute on archaeo-materials (UMR 5060, CNRS) Centre since 2004. It is authorized since 2010 to conduct academic research (University of Paris IV-Sorbonne, qualified for the office of teacher . 'universities by the National Council of Universities (2012) and member of the Graduate School Archaeology (ED 112), University Paris I Panthéon-Sorbonne Finally, she was a junior member of the Institut Universitaire de France ( http: //iuf.amue.fr ) from 2006 to 2009.

Since September 2013, she was chief curator and director of the library department of coins and medals and antiques from the National Library of France 2 . She is a member of the French Numismatic Society, co-director of the Numismatic Journal 3 , of the Society of Ancient History at the University and the French Association of Economic History teachers.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 04:08:49 am »
Dear Mary,

Being a avid collector of Phoenician coins especially those of Arados, i have personally been aware of Frederique Duyrat´s remarkable work for many years. Her expertise and dedication is an inspiration for all who share our passion for coins of the Southern Levant. I have quoted her work on numerous occasions and tried with the help of her publications to expand our knowledge and understanding of these fascinating coins.

I am sure Frederique will make an outstanding director of Coins & medals for the Bibliothèque nationale de France and wish her all the best with her deserved appointment.

Best Regards
Martin




Offline marylannin

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 07:56:24 am »
I agree that she will make an outstanding director, Arados!

And the digitization of all the coins, plus the move of the BnF's holdings, are enormous tasks to undertake. All of us, including Frederique, will be happy when these projects are completed.

I will confess that several wonderful coins of Arados have found their way into my Seleucid collection, including two Alexander-types from Balanea.

Back to your studies...I have enjoyed reading this thread.

Mary

Offline Nassif

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2014, 12:15:21 pm »
Great job +++ +++ +++
Nassif

Vladimir

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2014, 11:51:01 pm »
Hello guys. I got myself this little beauty 1 drachm from Arados.  Mind me asking how rare/common these coins are?

[LINK REMOVED MY ADMIN]


EDIT BY ADMIN:
Phonecia Arados  2nd century BC. ar Drachm
obv. Bee  rev. stag standing right in front of palm tree.
Sear 5989

Offline benito

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2014, 04:26:18 am »
The Arados bee and stag type is very common.

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2014, 06:50:36 am »
The rarity of this type depends on the era date it was minted, your coin is dated 91 or 168/69 B.C. This would make it quite common but still a good find.

Alternative reference Duyrat 2677-2734.

I took the liberty of putting both images together, thanks for sharing.


Vladimir

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2014, 01:51:21 pm »
Thanks guys! I guess I meant general rarity rather than type-specific. I looked and it seems there is only 1 drachm on vcoins, 1 on buy it now eBay, none here, and CNG sold  only 6 in the last two years. With sales like these I bet it takes a titanic effort to collect these by year/ letter/type

Offline marcos x

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2014, 10:33:47 am »
This thread should be renamed a gallery of galleys ;) Im glad somebody started this thread because this is my favorite type of Mid east based coinage, I have a decent sized group of Aradian staters.
I will post a pic of all of them together in one snapshot, on this thread when I have a minute. this pic is the obverse of a rather early type and my favorite.
when I die make sure to put two coins on my eyes for the boatman......make sure they are not fouree's

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2015, 06:30:35 am »
Im glad somebody started this thread because this is my favorite type of Mid east based coinage, I have a decent sized group of Aradian staters.
I will post a pic of all of them together in one snapshot, on this thread when I have a minute. this pic is the obverse of a rather early type and my favorite.


I look forward to seeing your Aradian staters posted here but before you do please try and improve your image quality, thanks.

Offline Nassif

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2015, 10:38:36 am »
Hi All;
I would like to share my coin with you:
PHOENICIA, Arados. Uncertain king. Circa 400-380 BC. AR Third Stater – Tetrobol (12,5mm, 2.6 g, 12h). Ba‘al-Arwad right, holding dolphin in each hand (one off of the flan); Aramaic M A (mint signature) above / Galley right; below, hippocamp right. Betlyon 6; Rouvier 38; HGC 10, 39. VF,Toned
Regards
Nassif

Offline Arados

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2015, 02:27:41 pm »
Hi All;
I would like to share my coin with you:
PHOENICIA, Arados. Uncertain king. Circa 400-380 BC. AR Third Stater – Tetrobol (12,5mm, 2.6 g, 12h). Ba‘al-Arwad right, holding dolphin in each hand (one off of the flan); Aramaic M A (mint signature) above / Galley right; below, hippocamp right. Betlyon 6; Rouvier 38; HGC 10, 39. VF,Toned
Regards
Nassif

The winged Hippocamp were added to the third generation of Aradian Tetrobols during the date you mentioned and carried on over to the fourth generation. Many scholars have interpreted the addition of the Hippocamps to be that of named worshipped deities. This theory seems very feasible, we need to remember that the Aradians livelihood depended on their maritime trade routes, so depicting sea creatures on coins could have given the impression of divine protection thus warding off unwanted attention.

I really love your coin Nassif, thanks for sharing.  +++

Offline Nassif

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Re: Phoenicia Arados - Silver
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2015, 10:38:01 am »
Great thanks for your outstanding cooperation to explain phoenician coinage
All the bests
Nassif

 

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