One that got away (thankfully; it would have pulled me in)

[Andrew McCabe]

Here's a big fish coin that slipped out of my hands today, which is probably just as well, since I'd have drowned trying to pay for it. I stopped bidding at ... an absolutely insanely high level. Someone else thought it worth even more than that, and kept going. For the record, several examples of this type have fetched even higher prices, despite being in not as excellent condition, this likely being the best known. I'm rather relieved that I didn't go even further. I'm building some new bookcases, and stopping short on another nice Roman coin will certainly help.

[Mat]

Beautiful, never seen the type before. Not surprised it went high though.

[Jay GT4]

So that's what it looked like!   I've also been caught up bidding on one of these but in nowhere near as good a condition.  An amazing historical coin!

[Sam]

Hopefully , soon you find even a better one , with a manageable price.

Sam

[David Atherton]

Your discipline is indeed amazing. I don't think I could say the same!

[quadrans]

Here's a big fish coin that slipped out of my hands today, which is probably just as well, since I'd have drowned trying to pay for it. I stopped bidding at ... an absolutely insanely high level. Someone else thought it worth even more than that, and kept going. For the record, several examples of this type have fetched even higher prices, despite being in not as excellent condition, this likely being the best known. I'm rather relieved that I didn't go even further. I'm building some new bookcases, and stopping short on another nice Roman coin will certainly help.

Beautiful condition coin comparing to my poor coin...

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-100773

Thank you to showed us...

Q.

[Carausius]

Andrew:

Have you seen this die combination before?  When I first saw this listing a week or two ago, I thought the AHALA inscription was oddly smaller than BRVTVS.  I do not recall seeing such a disparate font before on this type. It caught my eye, both for its stunning condition/style and the unusually small (?) AHALA inscription. In any event, there's plenty more fish in the sea, and you will undoubtedly get more use from your new bookshelves than another Brutus-Ahala denarius,  though perhaps with fewer bragging rights.

[cliff_marsland]

It's an exceptionally lovely piece, but I don't blame you for letting it go if the price was too much.

The one you have isn't bad and it's a part of an exceptionally fine collection.  I wouldn't feel too bad.

I'm not familiar with this particular auction lot, so I have no idea of what it went for, but you were probably wise to let it go if the price was too high.  No hobby is worth going into difficulties for.

[Carausius]

Andrew:

Have you seen this die combination before?  When I first saw this listing a week or two ago, I thought the AHALA inscription was oddly smaller than BRVTVS.  I do not recall seeing such a disparate font before on this type.

Nevermind, I found the die combination!  Banti 38/3.

[glebe]

Personally I can't see the attraction of this coin.
It has some historical interest of course, but it's not very scarce (I pulled up a truckload of nice examples from CNG with no trouble), and nor are most examples overly expensive. As well the design is utterly mundane, like most Brutus types, and indeed, like Roman coins in general.
I'd much rather have a copy of an imaginative late Byzantine type, such as the martyrdom of St Demetrius. (See the unfortunate saint being skewered below).
But each to his own.

Ross G.

(Well, a bucketload anyway).

[Andrew McCabe]

Personally I can't see the attraction of this coin.
It has some historical interest of course, but it's not very scarce (I pulled up a truckload of nice examples from CNG with no trouble), and nor are most examples overly expensive. As well the design is utterly mundane, like most Brutus types, and indeed, like Roman coins in general.
I'd much rather have a copy of an imaginative late Byzantine type, such as the martyrdom of St Demetrius. (See the unfortunate saint being skewered below).
But each to his own.

Ross G.

(Well, a bucketload anyway).

Thanks. I'm sure this response is intended to make me feel better that I didn't top the c.$13,000 winning bid (incl. juice). In fact this was by no means the dearest recently auctioned example, and others at high or not so high prices often had less refined style or wear or were off struck whereas this had none of these defects and was in the finest portraiture style (these specific dies, not the vast numbers of specimens in cruder style). Late Roman Republican portraiture is celebrated in art histories for its extreme verism, and whilst Brutus and Ahala were long dead, the portrait tradition is that these images were modelled after family death masks, and both families may have ancestral images to be modelled. Whilst Brutus is a handsome rugged type, the sheer ugliness of the Ahala portrait must have had a live or dead ancestral model, so presumably both did. There is also a remarkable difference in the quality of engraving between this die pair and that of the plentiful mundane examples to be seen on the internet. Look at those crows-feet wrinkles! All in all I had considered this a coin of extraordinary quality and one that I'd hoped might be the cover piece of an eventual collection catalogue but it's refreshing to have one's errors in matter of taste clearly pointed out. Luckily I do have my fair share of more attractive coins in my collection too, Republican prow-design struck bronzes, which should be some consolation..

[jmuona]

I really enjoyed these two messages, giving mirth to the darkening Northern evenings. Absolutrly no double-meaning here.
I - for the strangest of coincidences - prefer the Roman Galba-Otho-Vitellius-Flavians as the greatest of Roman coins.
This all reminds me of one of the (many) great Doonsbury cartoons, in which Zonker was negotiating ransom for Duke. By the strangest of coincidences, the sum equaled what he just had told he had.
If you remember that one, you ar OLD indeed.
I guess it is the Pinot I had. One of the blessings of New Zealand.
s.
Jrki Muona

[cliff_marsland]

Holy blank!  $13,000!  It's still a better deal than some American coins, though.

I have a very fine collection of original mystery show recordings, but sometimes in auctions, one needs to hold off.  For example, some original recordings of Hitler, Chamberlain, Churchill, and Roosevelt speeches came up for auction (nothing like 13k, but they probably went for $200-400 each, perhaps more for the Hitler speeches).   I could have used a Hitler speech for prime trade value for more mystery programs, but I held firm, ignored those lots, and focused on my core collection.  I had transfers of the programs, anyway, making the decision easier.  I think you did the right thing to hold off.

What would a "reasonable" price have been for that issue in that condition?

[Andrew McCabe]

What would a "reasonable" price have been for that issue in that condition?

Pretty much impossible to say since there are few coins of comparable quality in the rarified atmosphere of "the finest known examples", but Coinarchives listing of the better quality pieces suggests we were below but approaching the "reasonable" price. I took professional advice before deciding on bid levels. My own perception was that this was "the best", I could find no finer example, and there's no reasonable price for "best". How can one do a cost benefit analysis when the benefits are unsurpassable?

For comparison my current example below cost just a few percent of these sort of figures. I regard my existing coin as rather lovely but times twenty or more between a lovely coin and a superlative coin, seems about what the market pays.



The ratio between good and great with Republican coins can be very high, with sometimes a master craftsman engraving just a few dies of presentation quality followed by a journeyman engraver doing the rest. Republican coins are also very erratic in strike quality. I don't want to collect quality like this, after all my focus is on Republican bronzes where after thirty years collecting the average quality of my bronzes is only now approaching VF. But I wanted this specific coin and I didn't get it.

[cliff_marsland]

Good point. One can't really quanitify a special case like that.  $13k is still a relative bargain compared to other coin genres, or paintings.

I guess radio record collecting is different than coins.   Condition is relatively irrelevant except for bad damage/decay.  It's the program that matters more.  However, that's probably the opposite of most hobbies.

Given the magnificence of your cabinet, I think you'll be ahead in the long-run.  You might have had to sell a coin to finance this one and then you'd have to replace the lost one, etc.  Then opportunity cost strikes when a new coin pops up that you really want but you're in a hole due to that one...  One never knows, a new Labienus could pop up.

Are there any coins that you still regret not buying or being unsuccessful in bidding? 

[carthago]

Yes, those are the dies to have.  There are others extant though and I think you did the right thing by walking away on that one, Andrew.  Personally, I think it looks like it might have been over cleaned with dull surfaces as a result.  I haven't seen it in person, did you? Others examples that I think nice too:

[Andrew McCabe]

Yes, those are the dies to have.  There are others extant though and I think you did the right thing by walking away on that one, Andrew.  Personally, I think it looks like it might have been over cleaned with dull surfaces as a result.  I haven't seen it in person, did you? Others examples that I think nice too:

Thanks for the confidence vote in these particular dies. Perhaps I need to find an example from the same die pair with just good honest wear on good metal. One will come up at probably a small fraction, if I wait. The coin was inspected in person for me, and came back with a clean bill of health, no issues no cleaning marks no corrosion but somewhat dull surfaces. The surfaces may indeed have had some chemical wash at some point.

Are there any coins that you still regret not buying or being unsuccessful in bidding? 

Surprisingly not many. Usually if there is a landmark coin I'll at least have a punt on it at minimum, which avoids regret, even if the coin went for many multiples estimate. For example at a sale earlier this week I put in a shamefully low bid on a portrait aureus of Julius Caesar. That's not just a landmark coin for obvious coin collecting reasons but also because if you want your wife to be able to wear the Twelve Caesars in Gold on a necklace then there is really only a single Julius Caesar in gold portrait available, so the specific type is always in demand to make up a Gold Twelve Caesar's set. I've only the remotest chance of winning the coin at my low-ball bid, but to avoid regrets one must at least try. I've had many similar cases. Of course there were many more times when I bid too low, but at least then you can say to yourself that you correctly valued the coin but the winner overpaid. If you didn't participate, you don't have that defense. So I always try to take part. My success rate at auctions is miserably low, but that's how it should be.

[carthago]

The coin was inspected in person for me, and came back with a clean bill of health, no issues no cleaning marks no corrosion but somewhat dull surfaces. The surfaces may indeed have had some chemical wash at some point.

So hard to tell from photos!  One must have real eyes (or a trusted colleague) on an expensive coin like this to bid.  You'll find yours.  The bottom one sold for 2000 CHF in 2005 so there is hope!

[Andrew McCabe]

The coin was inspected in person for me, and came back with a clean bill of health, no issues no cleaning marks no corrosion but somewhat dull surfaces. The surfaces may indeed have had some chemical wash at some point.

So hard to tell from photos!  One must have real eyes (or a trusted colleague) on an expensive coin like this to bid.  You'll find yours.  The bottom one sold for 2000 CHF in 2005 so there is hope!

I had a highly experienced expert to inspect and bid for me. As I said he gave it the thumbs up, good surfaces albeit a little dull colour. I would expect the coin would have toned in time. It's a fabulous piece. Some nice coins were indeed less expensive in 2005, but with a collection that then had many more gaps there's no way I'd have bought it in 2005 even if funds were available. I'd have been busy infilling the gaps in my prow struck bronzes series.

But on the more general question of experts, I prefer to fly, inspect and bid myself. Only I know what I'm really looking for, and no general expert in ancient coins is going to know a specific series down to the finest style die level, nor could they know rare and obscure areas such as Republican bronzes. I must look after my own interests, and I do. I'm not seeking a supporting expert. I've got to know what Im doing myself. Occasionally of course there's an auction I can't attend and I've some friendly dealers whom I can ask to represent me. But for me that's a second best solution as compared with self.