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Author Topic: Crusader ghosting  (Read 644 times)

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Offline dougsmit

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Crusader ghosting
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:18:51 am »
This very thin denier of Guy II of Athens shows strong negative ghost images on both sides which is recessed opposite the high parts of the other side design.   In ancients we often see similar looking issues like the second below on the reverse which we attribute to die clashing or striking the dies together without a blank in between and (third below) larger, less detailed voids opposite large, high relief areas (usually the portrait) which we attribute to the flan being too thin to fill both sides design.  None of our ancients are as thin as Crusader deniers.  What is the best guess explanation for the incuse cross on the castle side and the incuse castle on the cross side as seen here? 

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Re: Crusader ghosting
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 03:10:17 pm »
Hi Doug,  +++

You can find some nice ghosting in my Hungarian denar's
i.e.

016 Istvan III., (Stephen III.), King of Hungary, (1162-1172 A.D.), AR-Denarius, U-085, #02
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-107117

or

010 Laszlo-I., "St. Ladislaus !", King of Hungary, (1077-1095 A.D.), AR-Denarius, U-019, #01
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-110908

etc..

Best regards
 Q.


All the Best :), Joe
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Re: Crusader ghosting
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 05:29:29 pm »
Yes, basically, on very thin coins there isn't enough metal to fill both dies, so it tends to be 'sucked' into one or the other leaving the incuse ghosting on the other side.

You also see it on such things as Sasanian drachms, where the 4 gm of metal in a 16-20 mm Greek drachm is trying to fill the details on 30+ mm dies.

There are some coins where this doesn't happen, such as the coins of the Rasulids of Yemen in the 14th century, where 1.5 gm of silver is spread over 25 mm or so of die, and most of them show little 'ghosting'. My theory with these is that the coins that show 'ghosting' have broad design elements (such as the cross on your Crusader piece) which exert more 'suction' than the fine calligraphy of the Rasulid pieces. The piece below is just 1.73 gm and 27.5 mm in diameter for instance.

Best wishes

Alan

 

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