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Author Topic: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?  (Read 2074 times)

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Offline jskirwin

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Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« on: October 19, 2014, 09:16:34 pm »
Hi
I'm relatively new to ancients, but have collected just about everything else including baseball cards. In that hobby there is a single card, Honus Wagner, that stands above all others in terms of rarity and price. Even many non-sports card collectors are familiar with it.

Is there something like that in ancients? A rare coin that gets collectors' hearts beating and results in ludicrous auction prices?

Just curious...
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 09:31:58 pm »
One that everyone who's even remotely familiar with history will understand this coin:

EID MAR

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=439356

Offline jskirwin

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 09:53:36 pm »
Ah yes. The Eid Mar is definitely a worthy choice.
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Offline Galaxy

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 10:50:52 pm »

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 11:09:15 pm »
The EID MAR and the Coliseum certainly are a match for desirability and price, but not for rarity, there are triple digit numbers of both types in circulation. Most truly rare coins are not than desirable. Here's a type, the Alexander Poros, that probably makes the grade on all of price, desirability and rarity.

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1178661

In my youth, an Athenian deka would have similarly stirred the spirits, but there's a cascade of those around now, some hoard examples, some modern reproductions. Is the Akragas dekadrachm still rare? That might make the grade.

The EID MAR is perhaps the most iconic of ancient coins, reproduced in media and metal innumerable times, but that's mostly because of its iconography rather than its rarity. Honus Wagner is relatively speaking a much more ordinary item but at the same time much rarer. I just checked on the Honus Wagner. Apparently the most well known example of the card was tooled (in coin collecting terms), in this case trimmed to improve its apparent condition. Some forms of skullduggery are common across many hobbies.

Offline Enodia

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 12:03:42 am »
the facing Athena tetradrachm of Syracuse, by Eukleidas...
[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

exceedingly rare, and perhaps the most amazing and beautiful coin ever struck.

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 03:47:50 am »
The EID MAR is perhaps the most iconic of ancient coins...


surely that honor must go to the Athenian owl?


Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 05:23:34 am »
The EID MAR is perhaps the most iconic of ancient coins...


surely that honor must go to the Athenian owl?

 I suggested the Athenian dekadrachm as a better choice in the same post, but thought the myriad hoard examples and forgeries discount it! The topic being insanely rare and pricy coins, the Athenian tet wouldn't qualify. The EID MAR has the merit of high price and rarity and fame (albeit not exceptional rarity). Hence I went to Alexander Poros deka or Akragas deka.

Whatever about price and rarity, it has to be a famous coin. Maybe we should make a list and poll it.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 05:33:20 am »
Whatever about price and rarity, it has to be a famous coin. Maybe we should make a list and poll it.

I was thinking the same thing.

So far we have the EID MAR, a Colosseum sestertius (multiple types and examples), Athenian owl, and the facing Athena tetradrachm of Syracuse. Any more?

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 07:04:03 am »
Whatever about price and rarity, it has to be a famous coin. Maybe we should make a list and poll it.

I was thinking the same thing.

So far we have the EID MAR, a Colosseum sestertius (multiple types and examples), Athenian owl, and the facing Athena tetradrachm of Syracuse. Any more?

 Alexander Poros deka (my own first choice for Honos Wagner equivalent) and the Akragas dekadrachms.

In my view it cant be an Owl tetradeachm. Its a very common coin. Has to be a dekadrachm. Unless we are hijacking the thread from "famous and rare and expensive" to "just famous"

Offline areich

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 07:29:51 am »
The Athena tet was suggested as the most iconic coin, for which it is a good candidate.
Andreas Reich

Offline stlnats

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 08:08:29 am »
The Athens dek is a long time fav of mine and was the first I thought of when I saw the title of this thread altho there are probably plenty of other decent candidates if one was forced to choose.

Offline areich

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 08:36:13 am »
Going by the definition provided above

Quote
Honus Wagner, that stands above all others in terms of rarity and price. Even many non-sports card collectors are familiar with it.

The EID MAR is probably the best candidate. But I don't think many non-collectors not particularly interested in (ancient) history will know it.
The coin most non-collectors will know of is probably the Athens tet but it is neither rare nor particularly expensive.
Andreas Reich

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 09:20:08 am »
So what is the Athens Tet of baseball cards? It isn't Honos Wagner due to lack of rarity & expense. I don't know of any baseball players at all, but there must be someone well known in the USA who is both famous and featured on millions of baseball cards. Once we sort an answer for that, we can replace the Tet with the Deka and do a poll for "Most like the Honos Wagner card except not tooled"

Offline Carausius

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 09:42:47 am »
Babe Ruth would be the Athenian tet of baseball cards.

Offline Rich Beale

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2014, 10:40:58 am »
The great thing about collecting ancients is that there are very many types which are either unique or known in only a handful of examples. Each collector may have a different focus, and so a different 'holy grail'.

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2014, 10:54:00 am »
Can we not compare Alexander the Great Tetradrachm to the Owl also as I think thats better known than the Owls.Its definitely not a Honus Wagner

As the idea of owning one of the Alex Tet's I have a lot of friends who would get more of a kick out of that than the Owl as it conjures up a whole lot more history related
topics,ideas and themes in their minds.


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Offline Enodia

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2014, 01:30:05 pm »
The Athena tet was suggested as the most iconic coin, for which it is a good candidate.

thank you areich, that was my meaning exactly. nobody outside of ancient collecting knows what an Eid Mar is, or even an Alexander tet. but everyone has seen the Athenian owl. it is still used today to sell Greek products, etc.

i think even Babe Ruth is too rare to equate with the Athenian owl. probably a Micky Mantle or Willie Mays rookie card would be closer.

as far as rarity is concerned, there are only 18 known examples of the Syracusan tet i posted above, and 11 of those are in museums. one could probably find a Honus Wagner T-206 more easily.

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Offline AncientJoe

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2014, 02:11:49 pm »
thank you areich, that was my meaning exactly. nobody outside of ancient collecting knows what an Eid Mar is, or even an Alexander tet. but everyone has seen the Athenian owl. it is still used today to sell Greek products, etc.

While non-collectors probably don't know what the Eid Mar coin is, a quick description makes it instantly recognizable. Students are taught the story of Julius Caesar's assassination and the phrase "Beware the Ides of March" is used within the Shakespeare play "Julius Caesar", which is read in most high schools (at least in the US). I'd suggest that any coin of Julius Caesar, especially a portrait denarius, is the equivalent of a Babe Ruth. He has the household name recognition and significant demand behind it.

For non-collectors, I think the a Colosseum sestertius would also be very compelling, especially considering that everyone knows the Colosseum in its broken form today but the sestertius represents the earliest surviving contemporary depiction.

The Kimon head facing tetradrachm would probably also be high up in the running, especially the one sold as part of the David Walsh collection by NAC earlier this year, but perhaps a Phanes stater or trite should also be included, as well as a striated stater, representing the first coins. If looking for artistry, my heart is owned by Euainetos and his dekadrachms are truly beautiful.

But, my pick would have to be the Akragas dekadrachm. It has exclusivity with few available pieces and the scene is incredibly dynamic, not to mention its heft.

Rich Beale is right - there are too many choices and all are fantastic. And to think, all of the above pieces and more can be acquired for the price of the high grade 1794 US dollar which sold recently!

Offline Enodia

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2014, 03:31:10 pm »
But, my pick would have to be the Akragas dekadrachm. It has exclusivity with few available pieces and the scene is incredibly dynamic, not to mention its heft.


yep, that would definitely be another one.

Offline gallienus1

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Re: Is There a Honus Wagner of the Hobby?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2014, 06:32:29 am »

My candidate for top rarity would be the huge gold coin minted by Eucratides (171–145 BC).

Steve


 

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