Gringots mixed feelings

[Archon]

Hi I've been suggested to use gringots xoin cleaner. I have heard both sides of it so Im asking on people's export ended with it in terms of affecting patina of a bronze. I've heard it can lighten it but also that it won't. What are your expieriences with how it affects a bronze coin and its Patina?

[bruce61813]

As the inventor of Gringotts, I am a bit biased. It tends to leave the brown color of aged bronze. Having said this, there are exceptions. If it has removed copper chloride, ie - Bronze Disease, the copper surface will tend to be bright, as the BD has exposed raw copper. The same may happen with simple copper oxide. You must be aware that BD in may "hide" in it's anhydrous state in a brown color , not the familiar cyan color we normally see as active BD.

Bruce

[Archon]

Ok first off why does Copper always come up when I ask about bronze?Also I would expect the creator to have had As many old and bad expieriences as anyone so does this look like it has bf and would be brown underneath? If so knowing would help, if not will gringots darken or lighten? A simple yes or no would help.

[renegade3220]

Bronze is an alloy primarily made up of copper.  Copper is an element on the periodic table.  Bronze is not.  Bronze also has other elements in it such as tin.

Just google the word bronze.

[Archon]

K does that look like bd that would make it brown after gringots or is it just a normal green patina?Ive forgotten much of my periodic table by now.

[Lee S]

DUDE!!! PULL YOUR BLOODY CAMERA BACK FROM THE COIN....

  Seriously, as Ariche asked, do you even look at these photos before posting??

  pull back a few centimeters so the coin is IN FOCUS then crop the photo to size....

( This applies to all your numerous other threads also.... )

  With some photos that acctualy show something recognisable as a coin we might be able to help you!!!

Lee.

 

[Archon]

Sorry if I dont have more than a decent app.this is as good as it gets with it.

[Archon]

More

[Bill W4]

I may not have the most knowledge here, but there is no magic potion to make your slugs look like good coins.  Get over it and stop wasting everyones time.  I feel better now.

[Archon]

If you had read the post you'd know I only asked for people's expierences never did I say will it magically make them shiny and new quickly. I just would like to know if it might help some without darkening the patina or lightening very much.

[Jay GT4]

Spencer you need to move your camera back.  A smaller picture in focus is better than a close picture that is blurry.  It really is frustrating because we can't answer your question without seeing your coin.  That is the reason why people are not answering your questions. Please make sure the coin is in focus before you post.

If your using your phone or a small digital camera rest it on something like a book or jar rather than holding it in your hand.  Don't use the zoom feature as this exaggerates any movement.  Use the MACRO setting (usually a flower icon).

[bruce61813]

Fix the photo's. Now as to whether GG will lighten  or darken. You are showing a lot of pale green, but until you get some good photo's or you can use your scanner, they do a very good job and there is no focus problem. If you scan, do it at 600 DPI, then reduce the picture to to fit, you might have to reset to 125/150 dpi. I generally crop close and make the coin 200 x 200 pixels, 200 x 400 if i and showing both sides at once.

Bruce

[SC]

Unfortunately there is no way to answer whether gringott's (or any other cleaning mix, including DW) will lighten or darken your coin without seeing good photos.  And even then it is still to some extent guesswork.

Coin cleaning is chemistry.  The exact composition of every coin varies.  First, there are many different compositions of alloy (pure copper; copper mixed with a varying amount of tin and/or lead and/or silver; some copper coins can have less than 50% copper).  Second, all ancient metals had impurities.  Third, all ancient coins were hand made and the alloys in each coin varied as the molten alloys were not perfectly mixed.  Fourth, every coin has reacted differently to the soil where it lay buried for 15+ centuries.  Fifth, almost every coins has had some cleaning done to it before we get it but we don't know exactly what.

All this means that you can drop five of the "same" coin, lets say small bronze coins from the Macedonian king Antigonus, into the same mix for the same period and you may get five different results.

Shawn

[Archon]

Kk what do you think about how these will be affected?

[SC]

That very pale stuff looks like bronze disease.  Is it powdery?  Does it come off if you poke it with a toothbrush?

If it is bronze disease it needs to go and should be cleaned off - with hard toothbrush and toothpick - before any soak.  A soak would then reveal bright shiny metal under all those spots but at lease it would save the coin from being eaten away.

The other parts of the coin are a bit mottled.  Hard to tell if the patina is both green and grey-ish or if the grey bits are dirt.

I am afraid that the coin will not be pretty no matter what you do.

Shawn

[Lee S]

I agree that this coin looks like it will never be a beauty, and unfortunately it looks like the majority of uncleaned Greeks available lately....  Corroded, riddled with BD and/or covered in what is best described as stone...
   On the plus side, it is also an ideal coin to practise some of the more brutal forms of cleaning...
  A regime of soaks in Ammonia ( best done in a sealed jar, and either in a fume cabinet or at the very least outside! It's nasty stuff!!) followed by a going over with the Dremel and brass brush under the tap, then soak in DW for a few days, and repeat until you are satisfied...
  You can perform the same procedure with Gringotts, which is much gentler , but I have found that many of these Warty coins remain impervious to almost all attempts at cleaning with anything but the "heavy guns".

  Other methods you can try include electrolysis ( ducks and runs for cover!!) which should be the method of last resort, but could be justified in a coin like this, and I have heard that lye is another brutal but effective method, but I have never tried it myself.

 

   These methods will all strip the patina of the coin, so the next question is should you repatinate, or just wait, ( or get yourself a goat!! ), but that is another discussion!

As these methods all involve either electricity or harsh chemicals you should be very careful and take all necessary precautions!!

( it is also worth noting that I have only ever found these methods to be useful on the crustiest most difficult coins, it is probably best to practice on some slugs first so you get an idea of what to expect from the treatments)

Lee.

[Joe Sermarini]

I have never cleaned a bronze coin that did not have BD with anything but olive oil (which I don't actually recommend anymore), distilled water, soap (TSP and dish soap), brushes (soft brass by hand and nylon on Dremel), a microscope and a scalpel.  Any coin that needs more than that, I doubt is worth cleaning.

[SC]

(or get yourself a goat!! )

 

Shawn

[Jay GT4]

Just experiment on these coins and you'll find out for yourself!  It's not like you can make them any worse....