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Author Topic: help Dirhem unidentified  (Read 530 times)

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lainecrist

  • Guest
help Dirhem unidentified
« on: October 02, 2014, 02:45:50 pm »
Dirhem unidentified
Silver, 2,56 g / 28 mm
Please help if you know the mint and year. Thank you

Severus

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 08:33:13 pm »
The mint is Al-Andalus, I think the year is 160 AH.

lainecrist

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 01:18:29 pm »
Thank you.

Severus

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 10:11:58 am »
The date could also be read as the year 260 AH. This can be best determined by placing the coin in context by comparison with other coins of this mint with the same or similar annulet patterns in the margin, style of calligraphy, etc . So far I have not be able to see enough examples on-line to pin down this particular coin. Sorry.

Manzikert

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2014, 08:28:41 pm »
As I said on WOC I am confident the date is 207 H, see http://andalustonegawa.50g.com/abdalrahmanII.htm for comparative material.

Best wishes

Alan

Offline 186

  • Praetorian
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  • Posts: 63
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2014, 05:26:35 am »


I don't know if it will help your search, but if you spell the word with an 'a' rather than an'e' you might get more hits. 'Dirham'

Tiesenhausen

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 09:43:21 am »
As I said on WOC I am confident the date is 207 H, see http://andalustonegawa.50g.com/abdalrahmanII.htm for comparative material.

Best wishes

Alan

When I first saw this dirham, I thought of seven or nine, because the top of the end of the word after sanat looks like an `ayn--but if you look at the Tonegawa dirham of 207 you will see that the tail of the letter `ayn curves to the right, back under the word it terminates. This is always true when `ayn is the last letter of a word.

On the dirham in question, the tail at the end of the word after sanat curves to the left under the following word. It can only be a nun (N), which, since the first letter is sin (S), means the word has to be sittin, 60.

The last word of the date also ends in a letter curved down to the left, so it must be mi'atayn, 200.

Put 'em together and what have you got? 260.

Best to all,

Tiesenhausen

lainecrist

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 06:26:45 pm »
Thanks You.

Manzikert

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 05:22:23 am »
As I know Tiesenhausen's credentials from other sites I will instantly bow to his far superior knowledge, and must apologise to lanecrist for the misidentification :-[ :-[ :-[

My apologies also to Severus who had already correctly suggested 260 H

Best wishes

Alan


Manzikert

  • Guest
Re: help Dirhem unidentified
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 06:39:39 am »
Having now looked at the two 260 H coins on the Tonegawa website I am now even more confused: they bear little resemblance to laniecrist's coin, whilst the 207 H I suggested looks very similar.

laniecrist's coin has a single dotted border round the inscriptions and five large annulets with pellets within round this
The Tonegawa 207 coin has a double dotted border and five large annulets round them (first image below)
The two Tonegawa 260s have three dotted borders round the inscriptions and no annulets, with a final thick line border outside all. (second and third images below)

laniecrist's and the 207 seem relatively thick and have higher relief whilst the two 260s seem thinner and broader with thinner and lower relief inscriptions.

The style of lainecrist's coin and the 207 are similar, whilst the style of the 260s is very different (as one might expect from coins produced over 50 years later).

I think I am going to have to retract my previous post and suggest that lainecrist's coin *is* a coin of 207 H, but with the tail on the 'seven' misengraved with the final tail to the left instead of the right as it should have been. Perhaps the little rightward 'flick' on the end of the final letter is an attempt on the part of the die engraver to correct this error?

Best wishes

Alan

 

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