Scarce Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm

[anton k]

I would like to ask forum members to evaluate a very rare Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm. I've searched the net inside out with no success. The only reference I have is a German auction catalogue dated Febr 1935. The catalogue has a very good picture of the coin and reads a starting price of 2500 reichsmarks. The coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. Also please advise if the coin can be sent to US from Europe if we decide to put it up for sale in USA. I attach the pictures (I made it myself) where one can see the exact weight in gramms and size in cm (one block equals 0.5 cm).

Best regards, Anton.     

[PtolemAE]

I would like to ask forum members to evaluate a very rare Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm. I've searched the net inside out with no success. The only reference I have is a German auction catalogue dated Febr 1935. The catalogue has a very good picture of the coin and reads a starting price of 2500 reichsmarks. The coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. Also please advise if the coin can be sent to US from Europe if we decide to put it up for sale in USA. I attach the pictures (I made it myself) where one can see the exact weight in gramms and size in cm (one block equals 0.5 cm).

Best regards, Anton.     

Please quote the auction listing from the auction catalog and provide the auction company name and auction number and lot number.

Tks,

PtolemAE

[Brennos]

An amazing coin !!!!   

[anton k]

I would like to ask forum members to evaluate a very rare Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm. I've searched the net inside out with no success. The only reference I have is a German auction catalogue dated Febr 1935. The catalogue has a very good picture of the coin and reads a starting price of 2500 reichsmarks. The coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. Also please advise if the coin can be sent to US from Europe if we decide to put it up for sale in USA. I attach the pictures (I made it myself) where one can see the exact weight in gramms and size in cm (one block equals 0.5 cm).

Best regards, Anton.     

Please quote the auction listing from the auction catalog and provide the auction company name and auction number and lot number.

Tks,

PtolemAE

pictures of the catalog pages...

[PtolemAE]

I would like to ask forum members to evaluate a very rare Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm. I've searched the net inside out with no success. The only reference I have is a German auction catalogue dated Febr 1935. The catalogue has a very good picture of the coin and reads a starting price of 2500 reichsmarks. The coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. Also please advise if the coin can be sent to US from Europe if we decide to put it up for sale in USA. I attach the pictures (I made it myself) where one can see the exact weight in gramms and size in cm (one block equals 0.5 cm).

Best regards, Anton.      

Please quote the auction listing from the auction catalog and provide the auction company name and auction number and lot number.

Tks,

PtolemAE

pictures of the catalog pages...

Thank you.  This coin and the auction catalog raise a great many questions.  The first is:  where is the coin now?

PtolemAE

[anton k]

I would like to ask forum members to evaluate a very rare Ptolemy IV Philopator gold octadrachm. I've searched the net inside out with no success. The only reference I have is a German auction catalogue dated Febr 1935. The catalogue has a very good picture of the coin and reads a starting price of 2500 reichsmarks. The coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. Also please advise if the coin can be sent to US from Europe if we decide to put it up for sale in USA. I attach the pictures (I made it myself) where one can see the exact weight in gramms and size in cm (one block equals 0.5 cm).

Best regards, Anton.      

Please quote the auction listing from the auction catalog and provide the auction company name and auction number and lot number.

Tks,

PtolemAE

pictures of the catalog pages...

Thank you.  This coin and the auction catalog raise a great many questions.  The first is:  where is the coin now?

PtolemAE

What do you mean - where is the coin now? I'm not an expert, but obviously one cannot guess where are a lot of rare ancients catalogued back in 1935.
I also don't understand why a catalog raise questions? I can assure you the catalog is original and not a copy, photoshop or whatever. 
It's also obvious that the coin in the catalog and the one on my pictures are two different coins - this you cannot deny. Another obviuos fact is that the coins are of the same issue - essentially they are identic, only condition is different. Or am I wrong?

Would appreciate any opinions!

[glebe]

The coins are different, but are they from the same dies or not?
The beading from 9 to 12 o'clock on the obverse seems different, as does the detail of the hair.
The reverse die though seems to be the same in both cases (I think).

Ross G.

[PeterD]

I think Anton is just asking for a modern reference -Svoronos maybe. The catalog is irrelevant, it just happens to be the only reference he has found. I think he is also asking for a valuation, which we do not do on Forum.

[glebe]

I think Anton is just asking for a modern reference -Svoronos maybe. The catalog is irrelevant, it just happens to be the only reference he has found. I think he is also asking for a valuation, which we do not do on Forum.

He should check out Triton XIII, Lot: 239 for a similar type with a different monogram.

Ross G.

[PeterD]

I think Anton is just asking for a modern reference -Svoronos maybe. The catalog is irrelevant, it just happens to be the only reference he has found. I think he is also asking for a valuation, which we do not do on Forum.

He should check out Triton XIII, Lot: 239 for a similar type with a different monogram.

Ross G.

Indeed. It is 7827 in 'Greek Coins and their Values', also a different monogram, reference Svoronos 1139, but that is the extent of my knowledge.

[Matt Kreuzer]

Great coin!

This particular monogram on Ptolemy IV portrait gold is not in Svoronos.  On Ptolemaic coins ∑A stands for Salamis Mint.  

For this type, there are similar coins with other symbols.  For instance, Svoronos 1187 has the symbols ∑Ω and ∏T.  ∏T stands for Akko.  

In Bank Leu 1991 #136,  ∑Ω and ∑I are the monograms.  The latter is for Sidon.  

Matt Kreuzer

[PtolemAE]

What do you mean - where is the coin now? I'm not an expert, but obviously one cannot guess where are a lot of rare ancients catalogued back in 1935.
I also don't understand why a catalog raise questions? I can assure you the catalog is original and not a copy, photoshop or whatever. 
It's also obvious that the coin in the catalog and the one on my pictures are two different coins - this you cannot deny. Another obviuos fact is that the coins are of the same issue - essentially they are identic, only condition is different. Or am I wrong?

Would appreciate any opinions!

Very simple question - where is the coin shown in the photographs in this thread?

Just to have a paper catalog printed in Berlin in 1935 is interesting.

The catalog photos/scans are not high enough resolution to compare fully to the coin photos to see if they match.

PtolemAE 

[anton k]

I think Anton is just asking for a modern reference -Svoronos maybe. The catalog is irrelevant, it just happens to be the only reference he has found. I think he is also asking for a valuation, which we do not do on Forum.

He should check out Triton XIII, Lot: 239 for a similar type with a different monogram.

Ross G.

Ross, thanks for your input! I did see this lot when searching the net.

[anton k]

I think Anton is just asking for a modern reference -Svoronos maybe. The catalog is irrelevant, it just happens to be the only reference he has found. I think he is also asking for a valuation, which we do not do on Forum.

Appreciate you help, Peter!

[Pscipio]

There is nothing odd in having a German auction catalogue from the 30ies - I have many of them in my library, too. Also, demanding Anton to disclose where his (or his friend's) coin is is irrelevant to the question and certainly not an information anyone is, or should be, obliged to provide in an online discussion group.

The Schlessinger coin is from the same reverse die but possibly a different obverse die, which is hard to see. Certainly not the same coin, though. This is a great coin type, in any case.

Lars

[anton k]

Great coin!

This particular monogram on Ptolemy IV portrait gold is not in Svoronos.  On Ptolemaic coins ∑A stands for Salamis Mint.  

For this type, there are similar coins with other symbols.  For instance, Svoronos 1187 has the symbols ∑Ω and ∏T.  ∏T stands for Akko.  

In Bank Leu 1991 #136,  ∑Ω and ∑I are the monograms.  The latter is for Sidon.  

Matt Kreuzer

Thank you Matt! I haven't seen Svoronos 1187 reference. Thanks a lot. Would you rate these coins (the one on my pictures and this svoronos 1187) as comparable in rarity and value? Regards, Anton.

[anton k]

What do you mean - where is the coin now? I'm not an expert, but obviously one cannot guess where are a lot of rare ancients catalogued back in 1935.
I also don't understand why a catalog raise questions? I can assure you the catalog is original and not a copy, photoshop or whatever. 
It's also obvious that the coin in the catalog and the one on my pictures are two different coins - this you cannot deny. Another obviuos fact is that the coins are of the same issue - essentially they are identic, only condition is different. Or am I wrong?

Would appreciate any opinions!

Very simple question - where is the coin shown in the photographs in this thread?

Just to have a paper catalog printed in Berlin in 1935 is interesting.

The catalog photos/scans are not high enough resolution to compare fully to the coin photos to see if they match.

PtolemAE 

I thought you were asking about the coin from the catalog, my mistake. As I told previously, the coin is in the collection of a long time collector aged above 75. The catalog belongs to the same collector. I can also say that the coin (part of the bigger lot) was purchased 45 years ago. I'm afraid that's all I can tell. Thank you.

[anton k]

There is nothing odd in having a German auction catalogue from the 30ies - I have many of them in my library, too. Also, demanding Anton to disclose where his (or his friend's) coin is is irrelevant to the question and certainly not an information anyone is, or should be, obliged to provide in an online discussion group.

The Schlessinger coin is from the same reverse die but possibly a different obverse die, which is hard to see. Certainly not the same coin, though. This is a great coin type, in any case.

Lars

Thank you Lars! Appreciate your help.

[PtolemAE]

...
He should check out Triton XIII, Lot: 239 for a similar type with a different monogram.

Ross G.

That specimen and the BMC specimens mentioned in the Schlessinger auction catalog all differ greatly in style and execution from the coin shown in this thread.

PtolemAE 

[PtolemAE]

There is nothing odd in having a German auction catalogue from the 30ies - I have many of them in my library, too. Also, demanding ...

Lars

Demanding?  Just a reasonable question raised by the original post that indicates someone wants to bring it to the USA for sale.  Maybe the catalog showing what seems to be the same 'scarce' type of coin that no one seems to be able to find anywhere else is a coincidence.

PtolemAE