12 Nummi Alexandria Mint - Did I Ruin It?

[Zachary T]

Hi everybody,

Below is a Byzantine 12 nummi denomination minted at Alexandria, which I only can identify as such thanks to the help of otlichnik, that I have attempted to clean. This is, in effect, my real first attempt at cleaning uncleaned coins. It has been, I'm afraid, incredibly frustrating. I am wondering, have I ruined this coin? Was the brownish dirt that is visible in the first picture the coin's patina that I had taken off by the time of the second picture? I thought I had seen a green patina below that dirt, but after I kept cleaning, I wound up with the third picture. In the third picture you can see some shiny dots that my dental pick may have caused to peep through. I thought I was being extraordinarily careful, but I have a feeling it didn't matter how careful I was because the coin was and had been finished long ago. Now, the exergue is barely readable. I apologize for the poor picture quality of the first and third pictures.

Should I just stop at this point or continue past the greenish blackish remnants left on the surface of the coin to the bare metal? I feel absolutely horrible about this. As a classics major at school, and an ardent lover of ancient history, knowing that I have ruined an 1500 year old artifact absolutely kills me. Perhaps I can salvage something from this situation other than a good lesson for the future?

Before - Middle - After

[SC]

I don't think you ruined the coin.  But I think that you made it less attractive.

It is hard to be 100% sure of its current state as the photo is dark but my guess is that it was a fairly worn coin to begin with.  This type is usually fairly softly struck and quite worn.  In the first photo you had a worn coin but the light dirt - really more of a very thin staining of dirt - helped to highlight the design and show it off.

Your cleaning removed this thin layer of light coloured dirt.  It means it is now harder to see the detail on your coin but it does not look like you actually damaged the coin's metal at all.  Some dealers in fact take coins like yours and add an artificial thin light coloured coating to re-create they way you coin originally looked.

Many of us who clean coins began by cleaning too much/too often and slowly move to less cleaning. 

Shawn

[Zachary T]

Thanks for your input. What kind of artificial coloring do they use? Can you direct me to a specific brand? Is that artificial coloring hard to apply?

[SC]

I don't know what they use and I suspect they don't share.

There are versions that consist of sand glued on, though that is more common on artefacts.

I suspect they just use a very wet clay but that is just a guess.

Shawn

[Zachary T]

Okay, thanks for the information. So what you are talking about is different from repatination using JAX or something similar?

[SC]

Yes.  If I understand it correctly it is just a wash of wet clay or dirt and so would scrub off easily.  Maybe some add white glue to the mix which would be bad as it would be hard to remove - but as i said I think that is more for fake or repaired artefacts.

Shawn

[areich]

It can turn this:



into this:



and some glue and sand into several thousand dollars.

[benito]

Yep its a nice way to make fake coins look better.

[SC]

It is also a nice way to make genuine coins look better.

There are some dealers who are very expert and honest and yet who have almost an entire inventory of coins that look like that.  And that is because some/many of them have had the "treatment".

Like many things involving ancient coins there are many shades of grey.

To me the key questions are:

- Is it reversible? (To me, mud slip = ok, adding glue = not ok)

- Is it done to hide anything?  (Fake, signs of tooling, etc.  Here the only real hope seems to be "know your seller".)

- Is there full disclosure?  (yes = ok, no not = ok; then you can decide for yourself)

To me, if done properly (with respect to the above questions) then it is even less harmless than re-patination as it is less "invasive" and more easily reversible (don't like it, then wash it off).

Frankly there are many of my coins that would look better with it.  If I knew how I might do it to some.  I am not a dealer but I would still note which ones I did it to anyway for future sales or disbursement of the collection.  But I don't know how and so haven't.

Shawn

[Andrew McCabe]

The point about "full disclosure" of glued-on sand patina accompanied by tooling etc., is that no dealer will disclose he has added glued patina and altered the surfaces. The only "full disclosure" you are ever likely to read about a sand patinated coin is "I did nothing to it" and that's invariably an outright lie.

I never buy cons with such patinas. They have "fake" written all.over them, and are as plausible as a coin coloured bright pink. Others, who earnestly read through the lines of sales descriptions seeking words that they can interpret and believe as being "full disclosure" are welcome to these altered coins.