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Author Topic: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor  (Read 3362 times)

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Offline quadrans

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Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« on: April 04, 2014, 06:01:26 pm »
Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor

Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate Fibula #124,
type: Round Plate Fibulae, The surface is decorated with a series of small leaves (Niello inlaid disc brooch), with the central knob. Around the edge are eight small peripherial lugs.
size: 26x26mm,
weight: 5,79g,
date: mid and late  1st. centuries A.D.,
ref: Hattatt 1007 ???.,
distribution: ???,

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-108306

 Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline wileyc

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 11:16:08 am »
I saw this in your gallery, interesting piece. Have never seen anything similar. Curious to the metal working that created it. Have no idea on date.

CW

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 11:20:50 am »
Hi CW Yes I agree it is interesting metal work..
Not really visible, the leaf-s are steel-blue, and the background are silvered ...:)

 Best regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 02:29:45 pm »
Looks like an early plate brooch, like Hattatt 1007 mid to late 1st century AD.

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 02:44:56 am »
Hi Jay
Thank you ..
I belive it is a Niello inlaid disc brooch, at the late 1st century as you mentioned, but unfortunatelly, I do not have yet the Hattatt's book  :(

 Best regards

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 02:56:54 pm »
Though the shape is the same as the one I mentioned above, looking again there is no mention of niello inlay.  It only has a line drawing.

The visual catalog with line drawings is available here:
http://goo.gl/q4Ickx

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 03:03:56 pm »
Thank you Jay  :)
I try to find the solution, but litle bit closer somewhere in Europe will be better.. ;)

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Offline SC

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2014, 09:54:46 am »
A fairly common Roman plate fibula type:

Round Plate Fibulae

Typology:  Riha 7.2.1; Ettlinger 39; Feugere 24a; Genceva 25b

Dates:  Claudian - Flavian, c. AD 30/40-60/80

Distribution:  Western Empire, especially Gaul



Several examples, including this one, can be seen on the wikipage

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=geometric%20plate%20fibula


It is made of a stamped bronze disc.  The disc is silvered.  Then the design, usually leaves/vines, is filled in with niello -  a cu/ar/pb sulphide paste.  This gives a black-on-silver design which was stunning when new.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 02:22:48 am »
Thank you very much Shawn .. ;)


 Best regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Christopher H2

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2015, 02:36:13 pm »
Hey, I have one of these almost identical, but I think the central knob broke off on this one :)
It also has the 8 little knobs around the edge (two broken off) and the niello leaf design.
No pin either!

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2015, 02:48:05 pm »
Nice piece Chris..

 Congratulation.. +++

 Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline SC

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 12:11:31 pm »
This is a fairly common first century plate fibula type but yours has extremely nice silvering left.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Christopher H2

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 02:56:02 pm »
Thanks guys  :D

The find spot is a bit south of Naissus (Niš, Serbia). I can't help but wonder what kind of Roman person would have worn it back in the day!

Does anyone know if it was a "toga-holder" fibula, or a decorative clothing fibula?

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 03:30:26 pm »
Quote from: Christopher H2 on October 13, 2015, 02:56:02 pm
Thanks guys  :D

The find spot is a bit south of Naissus (Niš, Serbia). I can't help but wonder what kind of Roman person would have worn it back in the day!

Does anyone know if it was a "toga-holder" fibula, or a decorative clothing fibula?

It is a great piece! Wish it was mine!

 Toga's technically didn't need a fibula to hold it in place since it was wrapped around the body and held in place by the arm.  More likely used for a cloak.

Offline SC

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2015, 02:34:16 pm »
These plate fibulae were not used for cloaks.  The pin on the reverse was very thin.  I have some with original pins which are much thinner than the replacement pins you sometimes see added to them.  And the pin ran parallel to the back of the plate with only a small space between - say 1/8 ".  So the pin could not be used to gather much fabric and hence hold a cloak in position.  Instead a cloak required a bow fibula with a larger pin across the bottom of an arch.

Some sources say therefore that plate fibulae were all used on women's clothing.  However, that is not likely to be accurate as several plate fibulae exist with very masculine, indeed military designs - swastika, horn, tower/campgate, eagle, horse and rider, etc, etc. 

So it is likely that plate fibulae were used for several purposes.  Some to hold small amounts of finer fabric together.  Many of these for women.  Others simply as decorate more like modern brooches or pins.

I believe that yours is widely considered to be a women's type.

Shawn


SC
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2015, 05:05:39 pm »
I agree Shawn, I was speaking about fibula in general.  Although a cloak, sagum, paenula  paludamentum need not always be thick.

Offline Christopher H2

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2015, 01:46:27 pm »
Aha, a woman's decorative brooch! Maybe that's why it's so well preserved ;)
I wonder if any art from the period shows a Roman woman wearing one of these? That would be cool to see! I tried looking at some Fayoum portraits, but they might be too late for the "style".

Thanks again guys  :D

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 05:04:07 am »
Ettlinger and Feugere are not on our list of references.  Please provide information on them. 
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 07:06:05 am »
ETTLINGER, 1973. E. Ettlinger: Die römischen Fibeln in der
Schweiz. Bern, 1973.

 Q.
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Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 07:22:35 am »
Some extra literatura :

ALMGREN, 1923. О. Almgren:StudienüberNordeuropaischen
Fibelformen. Mannus—Bibi. 322. 1923.

AMBROZ, 1966. A. K. Ambroz: Fibuly jugo jevropejskoj casti
SSSR. Svod archeologiceskich istocnikov. D 1—30. Moskva,
1966.

BEHRENS, 1954. G. Behrens: Zur Typologie und Technik der
provinzialrömischen Fibeln. JRGZM I. 1954. 220. skk.
BERECZ, 1989. Berecz K.: Römischen Fibeln aus Salla. AAH
42.1989.

BOJOVIC, 1983. D. Bojovic: Rimske fibule Singidunuma. Beograd,
1983.

BÖHME, 1972. A. Böhme: Die Fibeln der Kastelle Saalburg und
Zugmantel. Saalb. Jhrb. 129. 1972. 5. skk.

BREN, 1964. J. Bren: DieBedeutung der Fibeln für die Datierung
keltischer Oppida in Böhmen. Sbornik Praha Ser. A. 18.
1964. 195.skk.

COCI§, 1984. S. Coci§: Fibule romane m Dacia Preromanâ. Acta
Musei Porolissensis VHI. Zalau 1984. 149—157. o.

COLUNGWOOD, 1930. G. Collingwood: The Archeology of
Roman Britain. London, 1930.

Crisan, 1979. I.—H. Crisan: Fibule romane în collectiile Muzeului
de Istorie aTransilvanei din Cluj-Napoca. Acta Musei
Porolissensis Ш. 1979. 275—322. o.

ETTLINGER, 1973. E. Ettlinger: Die römischen Fibeln in der
Schweiz. Bern, 1973.
FRISCHBIER, 1922. E. Frischbier: Germanische Fibeln im
Anschluss an den Pyrmonter Brunnenfund. Leipzig 1922.

GARBSCH, 1965. J.Garbsch: Dienorisch-parmonischeFrauentracht
im 1. und 2. Jahrhundert. Miinchner Beitr. z. Vor- und
Frühgeschichte 11. 1%5.

GERHARZ, 1987. R.—R. Gerharz: Fibeln aus Afrika. Saalb.
Jhrb. 43. 1987. 77—107. o.

GUILLAUMET, 1984. J.—P. Guillaumet: Les Fibules de Bibracte.
Technique et tipologie. Dijon, 1984.

HORVÁTH, 1984. Horváth L.: Előzetes jelentés a Nagykanizsa
— Inkey-sírkápolna melletti lelőhely feltárásáról. ZGY 18.
1984. 7. skk.

JOBST, 1975. W. Jobst: Die römischen Fibeln aus Lauriacum.
(Forschungen in Lauriacum 10.) Linz, 1975.

KELLER, 1971. E. Keller: Die spátrömische Grabfunde in Südbayern.
Münchner Beitr. z. Vor- und Frühgeschichte 14.
1971.

KOLNÍK, 1965. T. Kölnik: К typologii achronologii niektorych
sponz mladsej doby rímskej na juhozapadnom Slovensku.
slov. Arch. 13. 1965. 183. skk.

KOSCEVIC, 1980. R. Koscevic: Anticke fibule s podrucja Siska.
Zagreb, 1980.

KOVRIG, 1937. Kovrig L: A császárkori fibulák fő formái Pannóniában.
Diss Pann П. (PhD diss.) 4. 1937.

KUCHENBUCH, 1954. F. Kuchenbuch: DieFibelmitumgeschlagenem
Fuss. Saalb. Jhrb. 13. 1954. 5. skk.

LAMIOVÁ—SCHMIEDLOVÁ, 1961.M. Lamiová—Schmiedlová:
Spony z doby rimskej na Slovensku. Studijne zvesti
AÚS AV 5. Nitra, 1961.


LERAT, 1957. L. Lerat: Catalogue des collections archéologiques
de Montbéliard. Les Fibules gallo—romaines de Mandeure.
Paris, 1957.

MATOUSCHEK—NOWAK, 1985/6 J. Matouschek—H. Nowak:
Unpublizierte Tierfibeln mit thermiomorphen Gestaltungselementenaus
österreichlichen Privatsammlungen. Rö-
misches Österreich Jhrg. 13/14. 1985/86. 101. skk.

PATEK, 1942. Patek E.: A pannóniai fibulatípusok elterjedése és
eredete. DissPannlI. 19. 1942.

PESKAR, 1972. I. Peskaf : Fibeln aus der römischen Kaiserzeit
in Máhren. Prague, 1972.

POPESCU, 1941—44. D. Popescu: Fibeln aus dem Nationalmuseum
für Alterthümer in Bucuresti. Dacia 9/10, 1941/44.
485.skk.

RIECKHOFF, 1975. S. Rieckhoff: Münzen und fibeln aus dem
Vicus des Castells Hüfingen. Saalb. Jhrb. 32. 1975. 5. skk.
RIHA, 1979. E. Riha: Die römischen Fibeln aus Augst und Kaiseraugst.
Forschungen in Augst 3. 1979.

TISCHLER, 1885. O. Tischler: Die Gewandnadeln oder Fibeln
in: A.B.Meyer: GurinaimObergailthal. Dresden, 1885.15.
skk.

TÓTH, s. a. Tóth, Endre: Római gyűrűk és fibulák. (Évezredek,
évszázadok kincsei. Ш.) Bp. s. a.

VADAY, 1981. H. Vaday A.: Adatok az áttört fejű és kengyelű
fibulatípus kérdéséhez. ArchÉrt. 108. 1981.1. 65. skk.

WERNER, 1954. J. Werner: Fibeln aus Aquileia. Riv. arch,
dell'antica prov. e diocesi di Como. 1954,151. skk.

WERNER, 1969. J. Werner: Der Lorenzberg bei Epfach. Münchner
Beitr. z. Vor- und Frühgeschichte 8. 1969.
 

 Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 07:26:38 am »
Also a useful site :

http://artefacts.mom.fr/en/home.php

 Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline quadrans

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Re: Roman Plate, Geometric Plate, Round Plate, with leaf decor
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2016, 07:32:26 am »
Feugère has so many article,

 You can find here some :


Feugère 1977a : M. Feugère, Les fibules gallo-romaines du Musée Denon à Châlon-sur-Saône. Mém. Soc. Hist. Arch. Chalon-sur-Saône, XLVII, 1977, 77-158.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
Buy 296
    Feugère 1977b : M. Feugère, Les fibules du Musée de Roanne. Bull. Liaison Dir. Ant. Hist. Rhône-Alpes V, 1977, 2-17, 4 pl.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
    Feugère 1977c : M. Feugère, M. Feugère, A propos de deux fibules de type léontomorphe trouvées à Roanne (Loire). Revue Archéologique de l'Est 28, 1977 (3-4), 383-386.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
Buy 38
    Feugère 1978 : M. Feugère, Fibules d'époque romaine au Musée des Beaux-Arts de Lyon. Bull. Musées et Mon. Lyonnais 1978 (3), 157-173, 14 fig.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
    Feugère 1978a : M. Feugère, La fibule annulaire hispanique de Fleurville, près Tournus (Saône-et- Loire). B.S.P.F. 75, 1978 (1), 11-12.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
Buy 142
    Feugère 1978b : M. Feugère, Les découvertes d'époque romaine au Mont-d'Uzore (Loire). D.A.H. Rhône-Alpes, Bull. Liaison VII, 1978, 51-53.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
    Feugère 1978c : M. Feugère, Les fouilles du Verbe Incarné à Lyon: objets de parure et de toilette. In : "Hommage à Louis Jeancolas", Bull. Liaison Dir. Ant. Hist. Rhône-Alpes 8, 1978, 54-63, 3 pl.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
    Feugère 1978d : M. Feugère, Les fibules du Tournugeois. Bull. Soc. Amis des Arts et des Sc. de Tournus LXXVII, 1978, 133-198, 10 fig., 13 pl.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
    Feugère 1978e : M. Feugère, Principes d'une documentation sur les fibules d'époque romaine, Mémoire de Maîtrise, Université Lyon II, 1978,     
    Feugère 1980 : M. Feugère, Les fibules, in H. Vaussanvin : Le site gallo-romain de La Bussière (Saône-et-Loire). Bull. Soc. Amis des Arts et des Sc. Tournus LXXIX, 1980, 119-124.     
    Feugère 1981a : M. Feugère, Observations sur les fibules gauloises et gallo-romaines de Roanne (Loire). In : Colloques de Balbigny, Roanne et Saint-Etienne, 1977-1978, Saint-Etienne 1981, 179-190, 3 fig.     
    Feugère 1981b : M. Feugère, Découvertes au quartier de Villeneuve, Fréjus, Var: le mobilier métallique et la parure. Doc. Arch. Mérid. 4, 1981, 137-168.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
Buy 9
    Feugère 1982 : M. Feugère, Elément d'un cadre en fer de la Tène finale à Vienne (Isère). Revue archéol. de Narbonnaise 15, 1982, 161-174.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf   
Buy 135
    Feugère 1982b : M. Feugère, L'équipement militaire et l'armement romains : recherches et travaux récents en Grande-Bretagne. Cah. Arch. Loire 2, 1982, 79-85.     
    Feugère 1983a : M. Feugère, L'équipement militaire romain dans le département de la Loire. Contribution à l'étude de la romanisation en pays ségusiave. Cah. Arch. Loire 3, 1983, 45-66.  Cliquer pour parcourir les fiches utilisant cette référence bibliographique ou produire un fichier pdf

and some more etc...
 
Regards

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

 

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