Author Topic: Ending the Never-Ending? (Read 6279 times)

Joe Sermarini · « **on:** January 21, 2014, 09:54:13 am »

Not enough people are uploading their finished coins for the contest to continue. The next judging may be the last. Or I can try making it an annual judgment? Even then, I am not sure we will get enough entries to continue.

arizonarobin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2014, 12:24:05 pm »

That is actually why I bought my lot. I noticed how slow it was in here.

I think annual might be too long, but you are right that there may not be enough to even do that.

I would hate to see this go! I really enjoy seeing the before and afters.

Robin

Lee S · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2014, 12:55:50 pm »

I would be sad to see it go!!

Romanorum · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2014, 01:51:46 pm »

There's a possibility that a lot of the newcomers don't know about it. Is there perhaps a way of advertising this section more prominently on the main page of the discussions? Maybe you want to try that for a couple of months and see what happens. At any rate, thanks for the wonderful idea and all the fun we've had with it for years.

MikeA · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2014, 05:44:07 pm »

Hi, I joined the forvm just to look at the before and after pictures! For whatever it is worth, I was browsing the store/catalog and stumbled across the never ending competition.

Ron C · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2014, 06:33:35 pm »

Hope is doesn't end. Just joined and purchased coins yesterday. Looks very interesting.

Robin T · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2014, 02:08:04 pm »

I'm new too, and just bought two lots of the uncleaned coins. I would love to start participating in the cleaning competition, too!

Grant R · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2014, 08:34:09 am »

I tried to upload an entry yesterday, but I'm not too good with photo attachments. Haven't seen it up yet?

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:02:10 pm »

Uploading is instant, so if you don't see it "yet" you will need to try again.

Tobin V · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2014, 03:24:50 am »

What is the current status of the Never-Ending?

I was very excited to purchase and enter ... but I noticed that when I clicked through that I was unable to purchase the uncleaned lot. The status was "SOLD".

Has it been officially ended?

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2014, 10:41:06 am »

I am no longer selling the lots because we are not getting enough participants. Our next judging, if we ever get enough entrants will be the last.

Lee S · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2014, 02:16:39 pm »

I am saddened to hear this...

I understand it is a bit slow moving, but surely it doesn't matter... I don't see how it matters if it is a year between rounds... It doesn't cost much to host surely, and a big part of cleaning coins is patience... I for one ask you to please reconsider your decision Joe....

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2014, 07:37:12 pm »

It is more than a year.

Nikon · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2014, 11:55:21 pm »

Hello Joe,

I understand that this is a slow process, heck its a very minor hobby for me. and it took me 2 years to post my afters, (just did tonight one is fantastic btw ty)

I think the contest needs to have more promotion on the site. You still seem to do a brisk business here on the site.

The never ending cleaning contest should have basically a banner ad on the front page, your offering great deals to people to like the clean their collections themselves, advertise it.

As it is the contest forum is well below the scroll in the forum list... moving it up to the top will get more clicks. Also just finding the forum here where we can all talk about our obsession is a bit difficult. (it should be possible to access the forum in one click from the front page, consider hiring someone to redo the page for you)

I know you have a business your promoting with this site, and your goal is to buy and sell coins. But the community here is from my searches rather unique. That is gold in your pocket.

There are to my mind 2 excellent options that are nearly free for you to implement. and one rather expensive one.

1. The coin cleaning contest being the number one item in the forums, to make it easier to find and browse. Also with this in every uncleaned coin lot you sell you make sure to mention the fact that you have this contest going.

2. Making the forums easier to find. The site is called forum ancient coins. Make the forums a bit more of a star on the site, here people form all over the world can talk about their favourite coins, again you have a unique possibility here, and you already advertise in the forum about your store. So more people visiting more people buying. I am sure there is more than one customer who has come to this site expecting to find a Forum, to talk about coins who has left due to being unable to find it.

It is no matter to ban other sellers from advertising on the site, 99% of people are basically good. Besides there are lots of long term members who I am sure would help you moderate the forum.

3. Revamp the site... this is by far the most expensive. I would expect to have to pay over $2000 for complete rebuild. Any good firm will give you mock ups of how the site could work to Ancient Coins&pgc=../Selling/Selling_Coins_.html' target='_blank'>sell your coins and to make this THE place to buy ancient coins for free however. So you can see and get a feel for what the change would be like. Again, I would suggest making the forums again the star, you have the perfect web address after all. This shouldn't however take away form the ultimate goal of your site. To Sell Coins.

Educate people about coins, you have some crazy knowledge about ancient coins. How cool would it be to have schools buying and cleaning lots of coins from you? (this would be a rather inexpensive thing for a class of thirty to embark on after all...)

Anyway Joe, I am sure you will continue to prosper in your business. But a rethink of how to approach it is always needed rather than shutting down a revenue stream.

Think, if Blockbuster realized that Netflix was right and bought them out, or decided to compete in the same way, would there be a Netflix now?? I do not think so.

Sean.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2014, 09:32:19 am »

Thanks Sean, but...

The contest has never has never been a revenue stream. The "profit" was dedicated to the prizes. The contest is much too insignificant to take up space on the homepage.

The discussion board is already "a star on the site." People from all over the world DO come here to talk about their favorite coins. The discussion board gets over one million page views each month, much more than the rest of the website. Some members come here almost every day, year after year, and have never purchased a coin. So my marketing clearly needs improvement, but something other than highlighting the discussion board.

I wish I could get a complete rebuild for $2K. I have pay more than half that much every month just to keep it online. That price is for something much smaller and much less sophisticated than the Forum website. There is more here than you know about.

The supply of uncleaned coins continues to shrink and the quality of uncleaned coins has greatly declined. I once sold a thousands of uncleaned coins and gave hundreds to teachers every month. Today, I do not have a regular supply and hardly sell any uncleaned at all. When I did give those coins to teachers, the return for it was near zero. You have to introduce thousands of people to ancient coins to get just one to become a customer. The hobby appeals to only a tiny percentage of people.

Unfortunately, most things are more complicated than they appear.

Matthew C5 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2015, 02:55:26 pm »

Hello,

Were these uncleaned lots actually purchased from Forvm? I've notice that the contests have died-out, which is a shame, because I only knew to buy small batches from e-bay. Was there once(or still) an option to buy on Forvm only a few at a time? All that I remember seeing was large expensive batches of 100+ coins. Perhaps this is why it wasn't doing well?

If there were resonable batches to purchase (say in 5, 10, or 25 coins), I for one would buy and post regularily. I find that in a hobby of this sort, it keeps the excitment going even if you get ok looking common coins:)

Matt

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2015, 08:01:49 pm »

These were uncleaned lots specifically designated for contest entries. We are no longer selling them.

bert542001 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2015, 01:41:00 pm »

Sorry to see the contest aspect of this board has come to an end. I have been out of the hobby for some time with a move and readjusting life's priorities, so to drop in and find out the competition has ended was a surprise.

I do certainly understand that the declining participation and business challenges associated with Joe's management of the site led to the demise. I won't opine about the business aspects, except to say I would be so bold as to suggest developing a FORVM survey to take advantage of this dedicated group of potential clients and ask some very direct (anonymous) well-written questions about why sales aren't better and how to improve them. As for the NECCC, but for my own cathartic release I'll say this in memoriam:

The NECCC provided not only an approachable access point for those new to the hobby and developing an appreciation of ancient coins, but also provided a connection point between members of this community with wildly varying levels of knowledge and expertise - something that is actually quite unique in a hobby with such a steep learning curve and hundreds of years of accumulated archaeological, historical, and geopolitical/geosocial information.

From my end, as someone who dabbles deep enough to satisfy my curiosity and fascination with the history of ancient civilization, the NECCC was an ideal thread to follow others in their efforts, as well as learn from those scholars that participate. I did not start in this hobby through exposure to this site, but as most know even a cursory interest in this hobby will sooner or later lead you here (most thankfully). As you can imagine, this site can be intimidating for the uninitiated, so the end of the NECCC represents a loss in terms of both access/outreach and community interface. Could it have been saved - maybe not. I will say this in parting - this current generation doesn't have much of a sense of history or appreciation for it IMHO. Blame it on the information revolution and the prevailing belief that history is static versus relative, and technology that moves everyone so fast they never learn patience; either way numismatics is a hobby/field of study/professional vocation that is challenged.

Kudos to Joe for hosting the NECC in the first place. The last post seemed definitive, so I won't make entreaties for its resurrection. Perhaps the folks here can come up with a community supported alternative to take its place. Until then, I'll still scroll around to look and learn when I'm not "scrubbing my dirty pennies," as my youngest (now 14) used to say.

J

Andrew McCabe · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2015, 08:23:48 pm »

Quote from: bert542001 on September 22, 2015, 01:41:00 pm

Sorry to see the contest aspect of this board has come to an end. I have been out of the hobby for some time with a move and readjusting life's priorities, so to drop in and find out the competition has ended was a surprise.

I do certainly understand that the declining participation and business challenges associated with Joe's management of the site led to the demise. I won't opine about the business aspects, except to say I would be so bold as to suggest developing a FORVM survey to take advantage of this dedicated group of potential clients and ask some very direct (anonymous) well-written questions about why sales aren't better and how to improve them...:

I'd recollected a quite different reason for ceasing these competitions: Nothing to do with "declining participation and business challenges" and everything to do with the fact that uncleaned lots, as they used to be known, hardly exist anymore, at any price. So I read up the thread and indeed Joe said

The supply of uncleaned coins continues to shrink and the quality of uncleaned coins has greatly declined. I once sold a thousands of uncleaned coins and gave hundreds to teachers every month. Today, I do not have a regular supply and hardly sell any uncleaned at all.

I understand that this wider issue has two causes

- that good lots of coins undergo far more thorough levels of pre-cleaning in the source countries today as compared with eg the 1990s, capturing value in Eastern Europe rather than sending to the US. In other words whatever is arriving in the US isn't uncleaned. They have already been cleaned and cannot be sold as uncleaned coins!!

- reduced overall volumes of coins coming from Europe (whether cleaned or uncleaned lots) due to the easy finds already been exhausted since 10 years ago and due to much more restrictive export and import regimes and restrictions of sales via venues such as eBay sites based in the source countries

So it's not any business reluctance or any lack of customer demand that's stopped this, but that the coins are no longer available. My own experience backs this up. As recently as 2005 I recall a friend sourcing 450 large module (AE1 and AE2) Roman Republican bronzes from Italy on eBay essentially uncleaned. I could not imagine such an opportunity being available today.

bert542001 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2015, 11:34:23 pm »

Hello Andrew,

Your point is well taken and I'm sure a significant contributing factor indeed. I was reading from the top and taking Joe's first few posts about waning participation as the driving impetus that led to the decision. Without question, there are innumerable challenges faced by a bulk dealer that the consumer is never privy to, as with all supply/demand based businesses. Although I still see a number of trusted sellers providing uncleaned lots in the usual places, prices have certainly increased (and likely quality decreased) since I became interested in 2003.

I have resolved that as long as I can find the occasional quality lots of uncleaned coins from reputable dealers I will continue my own personal NECCC.

All the best -

Josh

Matthew C5 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2015, 11:03:47 am »

Josh, I like your enthusiasm. I agree on your point about linking new collectors to the knowledgeable ones with these uncleaned coins. To be perfectly honest, I think that uncleaned coins are essential to drawing-in new ancient coin collectors. I would have never considered buying a coin for over $100 unless there was a learning curve with very cheap coins, especially when they make the collector feel like they are uncovering history. Basically it's exciting - similar to a scratch lottery ticket but with historical relevance.

There are uncleaned coins out there, but I suspect that many dealers throw in a very poor, somewhat rare coin here and there to sweeten the pot and hook buyers. Others simply sell fakes. I would love to buy uncleaned from a trustworthy source other than one trusted dealer I know, who only has a source from the western areas.

Sets of 10-20 uncleaned coins are all around ideal I would think. If I was a dealer, I would see it as advertisement more than anything else.

Matt

bert542001 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2015, 12:58:32 am »

We're on the same page, Matt. It takes a while to commit to the first major purchase...but we'd likely have never gotten there without the tactile experience through discovery - always a lotto ticket indeed!

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Author Topic: Ending the Never-Ending? (Read 6279 times)

MikeA

Tobin V