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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  History and Archeology (Moderator: David Atherton)  |  Topic: Pompeii the Film 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Pompeii the Film  (Read 1051 times)
David Atherton
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« on: December 23, 2013, 09:54:27 pm »

Coming to theaters in Feburary 2014: http://pompeiimovie.tumblr.com/

Are you ready to hunt for the historical inaccuracies? Technically it looks impressive.
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 10:07:53 pm »

It may be good. I wonder if it will bring in some new collectors maybe Huh.
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 04:27:00 pm »


Are you ready to hunt for the historical inaccuracies? Technically it looks impressive.


Well... Judging by the trailer we will be quite busy hunting inaccuracies.

At the time of the eruption, Pompeii was still recovering from the massive earth quake from 63AD. Among other buildings, the amfitheatre would still have been uner construction.

The most evident mistake are those huge fire balls. There were no fire balls to this extent in Pompeii. There were some earth quakes, pumice and dust falling down, burrying the city. Later, when most people had already escaped, a slow stream of molten lava and mud covered the city. The bodies we see now, almost all died from suffocation during that first phase. Nobody died crashing under a giant fireball.
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2013, 11:03:11 pm »

Here is a plot synopsis, I guess someone on Forum might check this for historical accuracy, consistency with Pliny etc. Not sure it's all precisely as I've read in my history books but it's pretty close, a better effort than some historical movies on the ancient world.
====================================

The Doctor and Donna arrive in what the Doctor believes to be Rome in the first century AD. After an earthquake and witnessing a nearby mountain begin to smoulder, he realises he has in fact materialised in Pompeii one day before the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. When he and Donna return to where the TARDIS landed he discovers that a local merchant sold it to sculptor/merchant Lucius Caecilius Iucundus. The Doctor and Donna go to Lucius Caecilius' house to retrieve it. Unknown to them, they have been followed by a soothsayer who reports to the Sibylline Sisterhood that the prophesized man in the blue box has arrived, and the Sisters fear the prediction that his arrival brings fire and death.

At the house, the Doctor is surprised by Lucius Caecilius' daughter Evelina, who seems to have ESP and knows personal details about the Doctor and Donna. They are interrupted by the local augur Lucius Petrus Dextrus, who has arrived to collect a sculpture he commissioned. The Doctor is intrigued by the sculpture, which resembles a segment of an oversized circuit board. Lucius Petrus reveals that he also has powerful ESP and calls out the name of the Doctor's home planet, Gallifrey. The Doctor wishes to learn more about the sculptures and enlists Lucius Caecilius' son Quintus to help him break into Lucius Petrus' house. Inside the Doctor deduces that the circuits will make an energy converter, but is caught by Lucius Petrus. The two escape, but Lucius Petrus beckons a large stone creature to attack and kill them. The stone creature appears in Lucius Caecilius' house and attacks them, but Quintus saves them by dousing the creature in water and killing it. In the confusion the Sisterhood kidnap Donna, and the Doctor sets off to rescue her. He meets the high priestess of the Sisterhood, who is revealed to be transforming into a stone creature. The Doctor discovers that they are being controlled by the Pyroviles, volcanic creatures whose home planet of Pyrovilia was lost. The Doctor is attacked by the Sisterhood, but escapes with Donna into an underground tunnel that leads into the heart of Mount Vesuvius.

The Doctor discovers that the volcano is being used by the Pyroviles to convert the human race and conquer Earth. The Doctor realises the volcano will not erupt if the energy converter is running, and tells Donna that the volcanic eruption is a fixed point in time and must always happen. The Doctor and Donna get into an escape pod and together press a lever which overloads the converter and triggers the eruption, killing the Pyroviles and launching the pod clear of the blast. The Doctor and Donna run for the TARDIS and the Doctor coldly leaves Lucius Caecilius and his family cowering in their home and dematerialises. Donna begs him to go back and at least save one person, and the Doctor finally relents and goes back for Lucius Caecilius and his family. He leaves them on a hill overlooking the destruction, and together with Donna slips out quietly as the family mourns Pompeii. The Doctor comments to Donna that she was right, and he does need someone to stop him.

Six months later in Rome, Lucius Caecilius' family are shown to be successful. He is running a profitable business, Evelina has a social life in comparison to her seclusion in Pompeii, and his son Quintus is studying to become a doctor. Before Quintus leaves, he pays tribute to the family's household gods, a bas relief depiction of which are in the form of the Doctor, Donna and the TARDIS.
===================================
not bad, ehh? So as not to spoil the movie for those who haven't yet seen it, the above synopsis has a couple of minor changes and omissions; those who get to see the movie in cinemas should watch carefully for any plot differences as compared with (a) my above synopsis and (b) Pliny.
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David Atherton
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2013, 11:31:30 pm »

Here is a plot synopsis, I guess someone on Forum might check this for historical accuracy, consistency with Pliny etc. Not sure it's all precisely as I've read in my history books but it's pretty close, a better effort than some historical movies on the ancient world.
====================================

The Doctor and Donna arrive in what the Doctor believes to be Rome in the first century AD. After an earthquake and witnessing a nearby mountain begin to smoulder, he realises he has in fact materialised in Pompeii one day before the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. When he and Donna return to where the TARDIS landed he discovers that a local merchant sold it to sculptor/merchant Lucius Caecilius Iucundus. The Doctor and Donna go to Lucius Caecilius' house to retrieve it. Unknown to them, they have been followed by a soothsayer who reports to the Sibylline Sisterhood that the prophesized man in the blue box has arrived, and the Sisters fear the prediction that his arrival brings fire and death.

At the house, the Doctor is surprised by Lucius Caecilius' daughter Evelina, who seems to have ESP and knows personal details about the Doctor and Donna. They are interrupted by the local augur Lucius Petrus Dextrus, who has arrived to collect a sculpture he commissioned. The Doctor is intrigued by the sculpture, which resembles a segment of an oversized circuit board. Lucius Petrus reveals that he also has powerful ESP and calls out the name of the Doctor's home planet, Gallifrey. The Doctor wishes to learn more about the sculptures and enlists Lucius Caecilius' son Quintus to help him break into Lucius Petrus' house. Inside the Doctor deduces that the circuits will make an energy converter, but is caught by Lucius Petrus. The two escape, but Lucius Petrus beckons a large stone creature to attack and kill them. The stone creature appears in Lucius Caecilius' house and attacks them, but Quintus saves them by dousing the creature in water and killing it. In the confusion the Sisterhood kidnap Donna, and the Doctor sets off to rescue her. He meets the high priestess of the Sisterhood, who is revealed to be transforming into a stone creature. The Doctor discovers that they are being controlled by the Pyroviles, volcanic creatures whose home planet of Pyrovilia was lost. The Doctor is attacked by the Sisterhood, but escapes with Donna into an underground tunnel that leads into the heart of Mount Vesuvius.

The Doctor discovers that the volcano is being used by the Pyroviles to convert the human race and conquer Earth. The Doctor realises the volcano will not erupt if the energy converter is running, and tells Donna that the volcanic eruption is a fixed point in time and must always happen. The Doctor and Donna get into an escape pod and together press a lever which overloads the converter and triggers the eruption, killing the Pyroviles and launching the pod clear of the blast. The Doctor and Donna run for the TARDIS and the Doctor coldly leaves Lucius Caecilius and his family cowering in their home and dematerialises. Donna begs him to go back and at least save one person, and the Doctor finally relents and goes back for Lucius Caecilius and his family. He leaves them on a hill overlooking the destruction, and together with Donna slips out quietly as the family mourns Pompeii. The Doctor comments to Donna that she was right, and he does need someone to stop him.

Six months later in Rome, Lucius Caecilius' family are shown to be successful. He is running a profitable business, Evelina has a social life in comparison to her seclusion in Pompeii, and his son Quintus is studying to become a doctor. Before Quintus leaves, he pays tribute to the family's household gods, a bas relief depiction of which are in the form of the Doctor, Donna and the TARDIS.
===================================
not bad, ehh? So as not to spoil the movie for those who haven't yet seen it, the above synopsis has a couple of minor changes and omissions; those who get to see the movie in cinemas should watch carefully for any plot differences as compared with (a) my above synopsis and (b) Pliny.

Sadly the Pompeii movie directed by Paul W.S. Anderson does not use the above Doctor Who plot, it's an entirely different film. The Pompeii film linked above is a Titanic like love story/action film. Perhaps more like Spartacus meets Titanic.
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2013, 01:11:33 pm »

I'd like to see this film. I saw the traveling Pompeii museum exhibit when I was about 12 Years old ad I was fascinated by it. I didn't learn until decades later that I have a minor family connection to Vesuvius. My grandfather was studying in Naples in 1906 during a major eruption. He claimed that the Vesuvius eruption was his incentive to emigrate to the U.S.
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 03:28:34 pm »

Pompeii and Herculaneum were hit by pyroclastic flows which caused the death and destruction. If I remember right, these were associated with the collapse of the cone into the underlying magma chamber, creating a caldera, but i can't find any details in a quick search. A pyroclastic flow occurs when magma is supercharged with gas, which breaks it apart, creating a sort of aerosol on the grand scale. The French used to call these nuees ardentes, because they sometimes glow red hot in the dark.

Studies of tiles from Pompeii have apparently shown that they were heated up to a maximum of 140 centigrade. Later surges reached about 300 centigrade. When a similar flow hit St Pierre on Martinique in 1902, one individual survived out of a population of 30 000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruption_of_Mount_Vesuvius_in_79
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Robert Brenchley

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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 03:37:14 am »

I thought that the pyroclastic flow was caused by the collapse of the "ash cloud".  The "ash cloud" that is forced upward by the pressure release is actually composed of rock, magma, etc.  The lighter bits will be distributed by wind - pumice a few miles, while ash will blow up to thousands of miles.  But the main vertical column is composed of the heavier stuff and weights thousands upon thousands (millions ?) of tons.  What goes up must come down.  When the weight of the column exceeds the pressure forcing it upwards it all comes down and then runs down the cone and across the surrounding landscape at horrendously fast velocities.  And is still extremely hot.

Add other phenomenon like the super-heated mud-flow that took out Herculaneum and there was more than enough visual drama to keep Hollywood happy.  That is why it is a shame that Hollywood ignored reality once again.  A movie based on Harris' Pompeii would be much better - and full of drama and action too as anyone who read the book will know.

That said I will definitely be going to see the movie.  Not enough swords & sandals flicks around no matter how bad......

Shawn
 

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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 03:00:33 pm »

They think the ash column collapsed, so it's a case of the stuff being blasted up vertically and then falling back down while still hot. With all the bits of hot rock in it it's a lot heavier than air. This is a much smaller one which killed a bunch of scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvjwt9nnwXY
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Robert Brenchley

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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 03:19:36 pm »

Excellent PBS documentary on Herculaneum and the eruption of Vesuvius here:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1215284329/

I already see the inaccurate clothing and armor.  Another inaccuracy is that they show the bodies in the trailer as we see them today.  But the only reason we see them is because archaeologists poured plaster into the voids found in the ash...

And I've never heard of a tsunami from the eruption coming onto Pompeii, if anything it would go away from it.
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 04:46:56 pm »

Excellent PBS documentary on Herculaneum and the eruption of Vesuvius here:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1215284329/

I already see the inaccurate clothing and armor.  Another inaccuracy is that they show the bodies in the trailer as we see them today.  But the only reason we see them is because archaeologists poured plaster into the voids found in the ash...

And I've never heard of a tsunami from the eruption coming onto Pompeii, if anything it would go away from it.

I was hoping you would chime in about the armour. Needless to say I'm not surprised.

The tsunami thing bothers me too, sure it looks visually fantastic but it is not accurate at all. Pliny the younger actually describes quite the opposite - the sea retreating away from the shore leaving behind many sea creatures.
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 03:22:05 pm »

That's usually a sign of an imminent tsunami. There's no further evidence, though, so the question remains open.
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 03:59:04 pm »

With all respect I think there is evidence that there was no tsunami.  No other coastal city around the Bay of Naples reported a tidal wave, specifically Neapolis.  If Vesuvius is the cause of an earthquake making a tidal wave then the waves would go from Vesuvius out into the Bay of Naples not come in from the Bay of Naples.

The PBS documentary I posted above actually describes the exact chronology of how the flows came and the temperature of each. It is worth watching.
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2013, 04:22:20 pm »

It's interesting rereading Pliny the Younger's account of the eruption and seeing that he mentions the sea retreating but making no mention of a tsunami. Robert is correct that this normally signifies an eminent tsunami - which (I stand corrected) must have occurred, although perhaps a minor one and not as dramatic as depicted in the film.
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2014, 07:07:08 pm »

Here is a plot synopsis, I guess someone on Forum might check this for historical accuracy, consistency with Pliny etc. Not sure it's all precisely as I've read in my history books but it's pretty close, a better effort than some historical movies on the ancient world.
====================================

The Doctor and Donna arrive in what the Doctor believes to be Rome in the first century AD. After an earthquake and witnessing a nearby mountain begin to smoulder, he realises he has in fact materialised in Pompeii one day before the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. When he and Donna return to where the TARDIS landed he discovers that a local merchant sold it to sculptor/merchant Lucius Caecilius Iucundus. The Doctor and Donna go to Lucius Caecilius' house to retrieve it. Unknown to them, they have been followed by a soothsayer who reports to the Sibylline Sisterhood that the prophesized man in the blue box has arrived, and the Sisters fear the prediction that his arrival brings fire and death.

At the house, the Doctor is surprised by Lucius Caecilius' daughter Evelina, who seems to have ESP and knows personal details about the Doctor and Donna. They are interrupted by the local augur Lucius Petrus Dextrus, who has arrived to collect a sculpture he commissioned. The Doctor is intrigued by the sculpture, which resembles a segment of an oversized circuit board. Lucius Petrus reveals that he also has powerful ESP and calls out the name of the Doctor's home planet, Gallifrey. The Doctor wishes to learn more about the sculptures and enlists Lucius Caecilius' son Quintus to help him break into Lucius Petrus' house. Inside the Doctor deduces that the circuits will make an energy converter, but is caught by Lucius Petrus. The two escape, but Lucius Petrus beckons a large stone creature to attack and kill them. The stone creature appears in Lucius Caecilius' house and attacks them, but Quintus saves them by dousing the creature in water and killing it. In the confusion the Sisterhood kidnap Donna, and the Doctor sets off to rescue her. He meets the high priestess of the Sisterhood, who is revealed to be transforming into a stone creature. The Doctor discovers that they are being controlled by the Pyroviles, volcanic creatures whose home planet of Pyrovilia was lost. The Doctor is attacked by the Sisterhood, but escapes with Donna into an underground tunnel that leads into the heart of Mount Vesuvius.

The Doctor discovers that the volcano is being used by the Pyroviles to convert the human race and conquer Earth. The Doctor realises the volcano will not erupt if the energy converter is running, and tells Donna that the volcanic eruption is a fixed point in time and must always happen. The Doctor and Donna get into an escape pod and together press a lever which overloads the converter and triggers the eruption, killing the Pyroviles and launching the pod clear of the blast. The Doctor and Donna run for the TARDIS and the Doctor coldly leaves Lucius Caecilius and his family cowering in their home and dematerialises. Donna begs him to go back and at least save one person, and the Doctor finally relents and goes back for Lucius Caecilius and his family. He leaves them on a hill overlooking the destruction, and together with Donna slips out quietly as the family mourns Pompeii. The Doctor comments to Donna that she was right, and he does need someone to stop him.

Six months later in Rome, Lucius Caecilius' family are shown to be successful. He is running a profitable business, Evelina has a social life in comparison to her seclusion in Pompeii, and his son Quintus is studying to become a doctor. Before Quintus leaves, he pays tribute to the family's household gods, a bas relief depiction of which are in the form of the Doctor, Donna and the TARDIS.
===================================
not bad, ehh? So as not to spoil the movie for those who haven't yet seen it, the above synopsis has a couple of minor chang
es and missions; those who get to see the movie in cinemas should watch carefully for any plot differences as compared wih (a) my above synopsis and (b) Pliny.
Andrew, you had me rolling with that one! Lol That Doctor Who episode may very well end up being far better than the movie. In my opinion at least.
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2014, 08:12:55 pm »

Oh, darn it!  Reading Andrew's version with the Doctor, I was like OMgolly, this is too good to be true!  And then I found out that like a Naxos tetradrachm at 99.95, it was too good to be true.  But you had me hoping.

In the Dreaming, the kingdom of the Sandman (graphic novel), there are all the books in Dream's Library, books that never were written.  Pompei must be in the section of movies that never were filmed (but should have been!).

Thank you Andrew for that little teaser. 
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