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Author Topic: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???  (Read 1482 times)

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Offline quadrans

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Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« on: October 30, 2013, 09:05:56 am »
Help to ID ???

avers: + FLORENTINVS  
revers: + DOMINVS...VE
Medieval: ???
axis: 9h
diameter: 13,5-14,5mm
weight: 0,46g
mint: ???
date: ???
ref: ???

May be this small siver coin from Florance (Firenze)  ???

I could use all the help.

Thank you

Best regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

rick2

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 04:10:18 pm »
does not look from florence

the lettering looks strange as well i would not exclude a modern imitation

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 06:19:18 pm »
Hi Rick

The stile are used in the Xth annd the XIIth centuries
the name FLORENTINVS in Latine means from Florance, but the name are Sanctus Florentinus also are possible.

DOMINVS means Master or  sometime "emperor"  but i do not find this coin in any Italian coin book..
???
The coin was find together with some coin from "friesach" type...

???

best regards
 Joe
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 07:12:49 am »
No One have any other idea ???

somebody from Italy ???

regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 08:16:47 pm »
Hi quad,

I agree with rick2. I collect medieval Italian coins, and it doesn't look like a Florence coin. It looks like an imitation of a medieval Sicily coin. I actually have one of those coins (a genuine one). On the reverse, there is that object that looks like the letter "Y", with dots above.

Meepzorp

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 01:06:14 am »
H i Mez .. :)

I do not disagree with rick and You only I need to find finaly what is this ...

At first looking like a coin with revers like a lily imitation typical XI-XII centuries style..

thats the problem I saw several thousand mediaval coin but not like this ...

the rick opinion are also acceptable, the letter are strange .... but nicely readable..
the coin which are imitation for this time have a chaotic letters without any understandable words...

Any way you can show me your early Sicilian coin which are litle bit similar..
post here ???


My opinion why Florance because the legends are FLORENTINVS may be that means Florance or Firenze ...
isn't it ..?


Best regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Jim Roberts

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2013, 12:10:28 pm »
It could be a crude emergency issue struck during the siege of Florence in 1529-30.  The only coin on MCSEARCH that shows the city's full name, FLORENTINVS, is a half-scudo struck in silver at that time.  CNI indicates that several minor denominations were also issued during that period, though none of them match your coin, and none are illustrated in CNI.

I think the reverse might read DOMINVS SALVE (with some of the letters spun around at odd angles).  That would mean LORD HELP US, a reasonable inscription for a city to use while it's under siege.

A very interesting coin, and I hope somebody will be able to find an exact reference.

Jim

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2013, 12:38:23 pm »
Hi Jim,
thank you very much your comment and opinion ... +++ it is very useful..

and I hope some others help more ..


Best regards

 Joe
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 11:27:37 am »
Hi quadrans,

You asked for further help, so I finally did some research. I've been very busy for the past few days. I can't take a photo of my Sicily coin and post it because I don't have a digital camera or a cell phone with a camera.

I have all of Varesi's MIR reference books. I looked through the entire Florence volume - twice. I found nothing that even remotely resembles your coin. And Varesi's books are very comprehensive and thorough. So, I think we can say with about 98-99% certainty that your coin is definitely not a Florence coin.

Then I looked in Varesi's MIR Sicily volume. I found only one coin that even remotely looks like your coin. It is the coin that I referred to in my post above. It is a coin minted by Manfredi (1258-1266) in Sicily (Messina?).

Here is the info:

Obverse: MAYNFR, Tau stilizzata (with a few dots/pellets)
Reverse: SICILIE, Cross
References: Varesi MIR 140, Sp. 211

By the way, the "Tau stilizzata" thing looks like an ornate/stylized letter "Y" or maybe even a plant.

Obviously, there are major differences in the inscriptions and minor differences in the devices. Apparently, your coin is a variation or imitation of the Manfredi coin, which is what I suspected all along. Unless someone else can come up with some other info?

I hope this info was helpful.

Meepzorp

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 04:03:39 pm »
Hi Meepz...  :)

Good news i will have soon Num. Corp. Itall.

and try to find it , and also look for this Sicily reference  soon..

 thanks your help..

Regards

Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 02:17:23 am »
Quote from: quadrans on December 09, 2013, 04:03:39 pm
Hi Meepz...  :)

Good news i will have soon Num. Corp. Itall.

and try to find it , and also look for this Sicily reference  soon..

 thanks your help..

Regards

Q.

Hi quadrans,

In case you aren't aware of it, CNI is available online. Try the "numismaticadellostato.it" website and follow the links.

Meepzorp

Offline quadrans

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Re: Help to ID ??? ,FLORENTINVS, Florance, Firenze ???
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 01:32:20 am »
Thank you Meepzorp

Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

 

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