Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Advice Needed on MFB Coin  (Read 1514 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« on: October 15, 2013, 02:31:48 pm »
I haven't cleaned a coin in about 5 years and when I did it was mostly surface dirt, not hard encrustations.  I just won this one and, although a bit nasty looking in spots, it has a rare "grasshopper" above the man-faced bull.

I might try and clean it up a bit.  Obviously someone already tried.  If I go the electrolysis route, will I be able to remove those encrustations?  Should I scrape'em off and get a bottle of toning agent?  Or do I smooth(!) it with a dremel bit?  Or do I leave it as is, since enough damage has been done?

Your opinions are greatly appreciated.




Offline Mayadigger

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1971
  • Romans, lock your wives way!
    • Noble Roman Coins
Re: Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 08:42:10 pm »
Ave Molinari!

Yikes, what a sad coin. I'll give it a go, but remember, this is from the photo alone.

1) GGTTs BD Killer soaks with very light SBBBing URW to insure that any incipient bronze disease is cured - I may see a few small patches on the Rx. The BD Killer will, of course, remove your coin's the false patina, but that's no never mind.
2) Once all the general muck has been removed, you'll need to look close at the deep pit below the grasshopper. I'd probe it with a common DP, just bearing down enough to determine whether the metal is intact or crumbly and the same for beneath the bull's hind hooves. Use a scalpel or DDDP to gently address the corrosions without touching any of the pits, small or large. All you're doing now is just seeing what the coin will give you at this point, savvy? DO NOT mess with the grasshopper. We'll deal with that issue later.
3) Again, just guessing, I suggest you then soak your coin in MSR (cut 50/50 with DW) for multiple one hour soaks, with tooth brushing and mechanical cleaning between each soak and repeat as necessary. You'll have to use your eye for this; you'll know when it's done, trust me.
4) At this point, after all of the above, you should have a shiny pitted coin with clean Obv legends and portrait...opposite the reverse, with the grasshopper intact. To smooth out the lesser pitting, use Dremel DD rubber tools, in varying grits from fine to coarse, positioned horizontally against the coin's face, always URW, until satisfied. A 1200 grit sharp point DD will serve you well for 'popping' your grasshopper. Do Not use these tools to 'smooth' any of the deep Rx pits. They are what they are so leave them alone.
5) Re-patinating Greek issues is problematic, as they rarely respond as expected via Deller's Darkener, JAX solutions, etc. VS Roman issues. You'll have to experiment a bit with the above, or even more, but once you find which works best, your eye will tell you.

Best regards,

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 07:21:58 am »
Thanks for the advice Kevin.  Unfortunately, I don't understand a lot of the lingo you're using!

I don't think the BD is active.  I'll inspect it when it arrives and post new pics.  I was under the impression from the photos that it would be all mechanical cleaning (or electrolysis) from here on out.

Nick

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • IMPERATOR
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6069
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 10:51:46 am »
A huge consideration will be what is under those hard green encrustations (that are likely malachite).

I have many sestertii where those malachite encrustations lay over smooth well preserved patina.  I also have many antoninianii where they likewise lay over nice silvering.

BUT, they can also lay of horrible boils formed by bronze disease that, like Vesuvius, might be laying quietly dormant today but can explode when it wills.

Malachite over nice intact patina can be removed by scalpel (under magnification).  By contrast attempting to remove malachite, or other hard substances, from over those horrid boils can be disastrous and is often not worth the effort.

Shawn


SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 09:36:09 am »
So I've scraped off a bit of the green to reveal some red encrustations.  The good news is it seems that beneath the red is relatively even metal, so far.

Another issue I am now facing is that the coin was heavily waxed, so I'll have to remove that at some point.  I suppose I'll just keep scraping away...but I wonder if I go the electrolysis route will that make the encrustations "pop" off easier?  It ins't like the patina is worth saving in this case.

Nick

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • IMPERATOR
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6069
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Advice Needed on MFB Coin
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 05:48:14 am »
The danger is what is under the red.  I have seen nice stable surfaces under hard green - sometimes.  But there is rarely good news under that red.  My fear would be that "popping it off" would reveal craters underneath but maybe some of the people with actual electrolysis experience can comment.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity