Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?  (Read 6589 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HELEN S

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1468
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 03:32:06 pm »
  geoff your posts are a delight to read
  each and everyone of us in the hobby seem to have a driven passion about our coins so in that you are no   different but you do seem to have an extra level of interest in your new hobby which is great to see
  you have worked out the way you want to collect it is not everyones way but i will be thrilled for you if you  get some decent coins once you have cleaned them up
  you will learn so much from your experience try not to overclean and i am so looking forward to your little gems GOOD LUCK   +++ +++

Lord Geoff

  • Guest
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 03:48:53 pm »
Thanks Helen - and you're right all of them in this first lot that turn out decent at all will be gems to me!

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2012, 03:25:14 pm »
Geoff -

It looks like you're off to a good start with the coins - and smarter about going in with low-end stuff than I was. For me, I always seem to learn the hard way.  ;)

You'll hear a lot (mostly in the older posts and articles) about bamboo shoots and toothpicks, but if you are planning to get into this long-term I think you'll want to invest in at least a lighted magnifier with stand, and a few dental picks. There is also a variety of mechanical tools like a cordless Dremel, bits, brushes, etc. that work very well for coin cleaning - with experience and practice.

I don't know your situation, but a few months ago I started a discussion on "Domestic Comprimises" for cleaners and collectors that you might find useful - and rather fun. (I can't get the link to post for some reason ...)

Tony

Offline Platon

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle.
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2012, 04:13:19 pm »
I am a total beginner, so take my opinion for what it's worth, but I have had great success with my uncleaned lots so far. I buy them from one particular guy at approx 1.00-1.25 per coin and he ensures that there are few slugs, probably less than 10 or 15% I think are devoid of value. I did buy one lot that was quite disappointing, but after this I switched to my new seller and I have found some nice coins for the amount that I paid. Although I will probably never sell them, I think that once cleaned they are definitely worth more than the $1.25 per coin that I paid, even if it is only a dollar or two more for most of them. I'll soon have a binder full of several hundred late roman bronze coins in pretty good shape that will only have cost me about a dollar per coin. As a new collector I have found that spending about $250 on 250 uncleaned coins has been a great way to get a collection going. I've also found a few nicer coins, including an as of Augustus that Andrew McCabe kindly identified for me, two rough mystery 1st century as coins, and some 3rd century coins, byzantine, and other stuff I haven't yet identified. I can imagine that in 25 years it could be much harder to get the same mass of coins for such a reasonable price. I don't regret the money I spent on these lots one bit, although I also think that I have found a better than average source for them.


Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2012, 05:55:25 pm »
I would caution against a visor magnifier. Go to a hobby shop, hardware store, or office supply and get a lighted magnifier with a stand. They run $25 - 30, and last for years.

It is always a good idea to separate your uncleaneds into "the Good", "the Bad" and "the Ugly" - or however you want to sort them out - before a DW soak. Post your "good" ones individually for feedback before soaking or brushing. A few might not need it, or not need much.

The "Bad" will be the ones that are crusty but can can be cleaned, so give them a soak, a light brush, then DRY them and take another look. Coins look different when wet, and by drying them you can get a better idea of what to do next. (I've often moved some to the "Good" pile after a short soak/brush/dry, and others to the "Ugly" pile.) A DRY coin will give you a better idea of how things are going than a wet one. Post these individually.

The "Ugly" coins are where you'll get the most practice, so pay the most attention to them. For one thing, these are harder to mess up, and if you do, are usually slugs and you're not out anything. Also, these are the ones you want to experiment with, try out new tools on, etc. Post these as well (individually). You may even find a few decent coins under all the crud!

There are a lot of additional options regarding chemical cleaning methods, tools, cleaning lessons, etc. but that's another debate for another day ...

Tony

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2012, 06:14:30 pm »
Geoff -

You can get a good lighted magnifier for $25 - 30 at any hardware store or office supply.

ALWAYS use distilled water (DW) for soaks. Tap water is chemically treated and can damage your coins, but is OK for short periods when your cleaning. (Just do a short soak when you're finished.)

Another tip: DRY your coins after each soak/brush cycle. Coins look very different wet than they do dry.

It looks like you're off to a good start!

Tony

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2012, 10:05:02 pm »
Jimmy -

You did very well with your lot! It's good to have a seller you can trust. I have one seller where I buy 99% of my coins, but there are a few others I'll make an occasional trade with or go to with questions. There's also an Ancient Coin Study Group in the area that meets regularly and it's a good place to talk and learn about coins and collecting.

I don't think there's any danger of running out of coins, just a danger of being able to afford them. The untapped supplies are mindboggling, but access to them is becoming more difficult and is slowly driving up prices. Imagine the number of coins that would be available if countries like Italy, Greece and Spain could develop a system like the UK in which metal detectorists and even typical landowners could responsibly sell what they find! These countries could pay off a huge chunk of debt by auctioning off the mountains of unused - and uncleaned - coins literally rotting in museum basements. (About the only thing they do now is create and encourage the black market.) I'm not saying they should sell off the rare or significant coins, just the common ones they can't store, display or clean.

Perhaps one of our sellers/suppliers on here could tell us about the state of things in the Balkans or the Middle East, but my guess is supplies are limited far more by the political climate than availability.

Best to all,

Tony

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • IMPERATOR
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 04:51:43 am »
We all have our different preferences.

While I use a binocular miscroscope for most cleaning now I do like the magnifier visor better than the magnifier stand.  I found in uncomfortable to have to bend over the stand.  I also kept knocking it over.  Though the visor is not stellar quality it is very easy to use.

Shawn


SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2012, 11:10:26 am »
Shawn -

I wear bifocals, so the binocular stuff is out. (Time for a new pair, too! It's hell getting old.)  8)

Tony

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • IMPERATOR
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2012, 11:14:40 am »
Tony,

I should wear bifocals.  Optician said I could pay $200 extra for bifocal lenses or just push my glasses down my nose a bit to read.  I chose the latter.  Extra benefit is it bugs my wife when i do it. ;D

But I was unaware that they make using the magnifier visor more difficult.  Interesting to know.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Lord Geoff

  • Guest
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2012, 11:01:17 am »
Guys (and ladies) - thanks for all the replies.  As an update - I got my hands on my first lot on Saturday (not the one my sister is getting me - I haven't looked at her post on purpose).  It was a lot of fun.  As Areich mentioned, 3-4 of the coins pretty much did not need anything.  The others I soaked and scrubbed with a toothbrush.  Two of them got a lot better just from that!  There was not much progress, or at least enough that I could notice, on the other ones.

I am doing a one week DW soak to see what happens and I will be scrubbing again.  I really need magnification to start picking at dirt though.

Tony - why do you not like the magnifier visors?  Does it not magnify enough?  What amount of magnification should I be shooting for?

Jimmy (or anyone else) - care to divulge the identity of your seller of good uncleaneds?  :)

Tony - I did read the domestic compromises already (I've read almost all of the posts actually) and it was quite hilarious.

Thanks again everyone for your help!

Geoff  :)

Offline Mayadigger

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1968
  • Romans, lock your wives way!
    • Noble Roman Coins
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 08:07:47 pm »
Ave!

Kevin, you keep misunderstanding what I say. I don't want to discourage anyone from cleaning coins. But I think it's irresponsible to tell a new cleaner or collector that coin cleaning that he could sell his cleaned coins for $50-75 if he wanted to. This is simply not true, even if he turned out to be a wunderkind at coin cleaning. I don't  dispute the fact that people have found valuable coins in uncleaned lots but 90+% of coins in these lots are not valuable. I took a look at some 'Premium Uncleaned coins' currently on offer and I am confirmed in my belief that they are more expensive than proper cleaned coins in bulk lots, sometimes much more.

If you clean coins because you like it and accept the fact (and it is a fact) that you are spending money, most of which you'll never see again you have my blessing. Perhaps, if more people would clean coins because they enjoyed it, there wouldn't be so many horribly over-cleaned coins around.

You are right, I may not be perfectly objective, having sunk a lot of money into uncleaned coins years ago, but neither are you, as a seller of uncleaned coins.

Andreas, my mistake. Perhaps I was misconstrued. I never meant to say that all premium uncleaned coins could be sold for a profit, let alone for a large one. Again, my bad, okay? As an uncleaned coin seller, I have to admit that 75%-95% will only clean up to a few more $'s than the price paid/coin. But that isn't bad, is it?

So, what about the final 5%? In this case, again as a seller, more is always better. Buy 10 uncleaned coins and you'll probably break even, but if you buy 100+, your likely-hood of discovering 3-4 scarce/rare coins is pretty good. At least that has been my experience, anyway.

See below for examples of expensive attributed coins found in uncleaned lots right here on Forum.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?radd=1&vpar=18&zpg=74117

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?radd=1&vpar=18&zpg=74109

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=740&zpg=73688

FYI - each of these three coins have been zapped and repatinated, although it's not mentioned on Forum. Sorry, Joe, but it is what it is.

Best regards,

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2012, 10:03:19 pm »
Shawn -

With my bifocals, I have to tilt my head slightly up and look down to use the reading magnificaton on my glasses, and it creates an angle in the lense that distorts the object I'm looking at. (Plus, there's that slight blur line transitioning from regular to reading parts of the glasses lense.) It might be just me.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS fellow cleaners!

Tony


Offline Lee S

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Conservator
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1561
  • γεια μας !!!
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2013, 04:34:44 pm »
I know I'm late to the party, but I would like to throw my pennies worth into the discussion...

   In my experiance over the last couple of years, I have found it is possible to find decent uncleaned coins out there, but it pays to be careful. I would say probably from the random sellers on eBay I have tried, only about 1 in 3 has a decent quality product.
  It is always better to buy lots of coins where you can actually see the coins you will receive, and steer well clear of sellers with the same photo of a big pile of coins for all there different lots of 5/10/50/whatever.
  The couple of excellent lots of uncleaned Greeks I have purchased ( C.70 of my collection of around 100 coins I have cleaned myself..) came from Bulgaria , which is also where the worst of the coins I have bought came from!! However I have on occasion contacted the seller of the good lots privately, and made further purchases directly.. I know this might not be strictly ethical, but how else to strike up a relationship with a dealer?
  Another tip is if you live in a country where metal detecting is legal, try approaching some local clubs, some of my favourite coins have been UK metal detector finds!
  I cannot say I make a profit from my coin cleaning, but I have amassed a nice ( in my opinion!) collection of coins, and the ones I sell I save the money towards purchasing better quality coins, and I believe my collection would have cost much more if I had bought all the coins cleaned, plus I would have denied the wife the pleasure of me taking over a whole shelf in the kitchen with jars, dental picks , my dremel and magnifying lamp!!

   Best wishes,

Lee.

Offline Tony A

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2013, 04:54:22 pm »
First of all, WHERE"S GEOFF?  :-\ Did the guy get his coins and sign out?

Lee - there are plenty of good uncleaneds out there, it's just that eBay is not the place to look for them. Check out the uncleaneds on FORVM, or check out the many links to the sellers you find on here. (Clarification: FORVM and many of the sellers you find here do post on eBay, but they will often charge more for the same items due to fees. And why go through the hit-and-miss process on eBay when you can get it all here and know you buying from legitimate dealers and quality individuals?)

(Lee - P.S. I started a thread a while back about the accomodations we have to make to our wives with cleaning coins. You might find it fun and worthwhile. :evil:)

Tony

Offline Lee S

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Conservator
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1561
  • γεια μας !!!
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2013, 06:36:58 pm »
Hi Tony,

 eBay can be a great place to buy uncleaned coins, if you are careful and have a certain amount of luck... Like I said, probably 2 out of three sellers peddle rubbish, but the trick is to buy selectively, I have no problem with spending $20 to find out a seller only has rubbish if my next purchase reveales a seller with some quality coins... It's a bit hit and miss, but I have picked up some wonderful coins along the way, for no big investment.
  I have also had nice coins from one of the guys here, and the quality of coins Joe sent me for the coin cleaning comp were just fine, but I have to be a little careful as Swedish customs delight in taking 3 months to release your package after you have paid Swedish taxes if it comes from outside Europe, so for me it is better to buy from the EU. Also there is the fact I mainly collect Greek coins, and they are much harder to find at reasonable prices and in a cleanable condition.
   I think I now have a good eye for spotting decent lots on eBay and other auction sites, but this takes practise, so my point was only there are still bargins to be had, and eBay works for me, but you might have to search harder and be a little more careful than buying from other sources!
   Now I shall seek out the thread you referenced... It's always heartwarming to know you are not alone!! Lol! ;D

  Best wishes,

 Lee.

Offline arizonarobin

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
  • Ms. arizonarobin :)
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2013, 12:49:59 pm »
I started collecting ancients with uncleaned coins in 2000-2001. I had fun and found it rewarding and was thrilled each time I attributed a coin.
It started me into collecting seriously, and I learned a lot about late roman coinage. I don't clean or buy uncleaneds very often these days because
my tastes evolved over time such that I know I will not find anything in my collecting areas in an uncleaned lot. If you are collecting Late Roman Bronze
coinage it can still be a good way to start and learn.
I found a few over the years that I love and are still in my collection. My only coin of the empress Aquila Severa came from an uncleaned lot from Joe's uncleaneds right here on the FORVM;D

I still have 1500 bulk uncleaned coins still sealed up in the bags from Nemesis in 2004 and 2006. (not likely the poor little guys will ever see the light of day) lol

 ;D

Offline Lee S

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Conservator
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1561
  • γεια μας !!!
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2013, 04:35:26 pm »


I still have 1500 bulk uncleaned coins still sealed up in the bags from Nemesis in 2004 and 2006. (not likely the poor little guys will ever see the light of day) lol

 ;D


 How wonderful!!!   If you ever decide to part with them, can I put my name down on the queue list please  ;)

Offline Mayadigger

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1968
  • Romans, lock your wives way!
    • Noble Roman Coins
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2013, 07:23:58 pm »
Ave Robin,

Me, too.

Send me a PM and we can talk.

Best,

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline tjaart

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
Re: Would these be good to clean up if you were somewhat newbish?
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2013, 03:44:12 am »
I would like to join the queue for some of those uncleaned as well :)

Tjaart

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity