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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Proculus coin found whats it worth? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Proculus coin found whats it worth?  (Read 8759 times)
David J6
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« on: November 08, 2012, 10:05:43 am »

Hi every one, just need advice for a mate... yesterday he found a roman coin of Proculus.. apparently only the second one ever found?

Any ideas of value?.. pics of coin are posted on Face Book in the Metal Detecting page.

Cheers David
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areich
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 10:18:10 am »

Can you at least post a link to the pictures here?
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Victor Clark
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 10:37:49 am »

Here is the picture from Facebook. There was only an obverse posted.
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Molinari
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 10:43:58 am »

From Wildwinds:

Auction from 1994, item no. 640.

Proculus, AE Antoninianus. Usurper 280-281 AD.
Unknown Gallic mint.

Obv: IMP C PROCVLVS AVG, radiate, cuirassed bust right
Rev: (VI)CTORIA AV(G), female figure standing left, holding wreath and sceptre.

Munzen und Medaillen Auction 8, October 1994

Unpublished and unique, the first known coin of the usurper.
It is also the first known proof of the usurpation by
Proculus, because the earliest literary information about
Proculus did not appear until the second half of the 4th
 century AD (Eutropius IX, 17, 1. epistle of Caesaribus
37,2. Scriptores Historiae Augustae (SHA), Prob. 18,5; quadr. tyr. 12, 1-13, 6). However, this source requires
caution in its reading as it contains a good many
contradictions, errors and fictional or dubious data.


Unfortunately, it does not give the price realized.

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rick2
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 10:47:13 am »

if it was found in the UK i suggest you call the local find liason officer

http://finds.org.uk/treasure

if it s only the second one found you should give the british musuem a chance to see it and then maybe acquire it at a fair market price
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areich
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 10:57:52 am »

He can also advise you on authenticity.
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David J6
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 01:39:23 pm »

Thanks Guys the finder has been contacted by a major Auction house and it is being placed in an auction March 2013.

Coin has also been authenticated by museum.

Only other coin found was sold in 1994 or thereabouts and sold for £40,000
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 02:29:24 pm »

In that case it should fetch a good price. I'm very surprised it isn't being classified as Treasure.
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dafnis
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 02:48:30 pm »

And even more that the coin was found yesterday and so much has happened in 24 hours.
Would recommend again contacting local authorities as per Portable Antiquities Scheme (Treasure Act) if not yet done.
Ummm... intriguing... Huh
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Mark Z
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 02:56:41 pm »

Have we ascertained where this coin was found?

I suppose it's not impossible but it seems unlikely that it was found in the UK, doesn't it?

mz
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David J6
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 03:06:10 pm »

Found in UK.. Guys there is alot of prices being banded about from £50,000 all the way up to £2,500.000 im no expert but these values seem over the top.. people are speculating it will be snapped up by a wealthy American collector.. Just add yourself to the Metal Detecting page on Face Book you can see for yourselves all the hype and story from the guy Mark Hildreth,

Dave
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Mark Z
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 03:35:41 pm »

Found in UK.. Guys there is alot of prices being banded about from £50,000 all the way up to £2,500.000 im no expert but these values seem over the top.. people are speculating it will be snapped up by a wealthy American collector.. Just add yourself to the Metal Detecting page on Face Book you can see for yourselves all the hype and story from the guy Mark Hildreth,

Dave

Dave,

I hope that it really is authentic since it will be quite a windfall for your friend and the landowner in addition to the ancient coin collecting community.

Is it possible that the British Museum will lay claim to this coin and then pay a nominal price at the bottom of the range?

Regards,
mz
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PeterD
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 03:43:57 pm »

If the coin is a single find. i.e. not part of a hoard, is does not need to be declared to the authorities and no one else has a claim on it (apart from the landowner).
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Peter, London

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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 03:57:57 pm »

I thought there were always exceptions for cases such as this one. The story is a bit fishy but I guess we'll see whether it turns up in an auction..
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PeterD
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 04:26:51 pm »

I thought there were always exceptions for cases such as this one. The story is a bit fishy but I guess we'll see whether it turns up in an auction..

No the value doesn't come into it. Remember the Saxon gold coin of Coenwulf found on a river bank a couple of years ago? It sold at auction. Today it is listed in Spink at £52500 - 200000.
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Peter, London

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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2012, 06:10:38 am »

The other coin of Proculus was sold by Bankhaus H. Aufhäuser, Versteigerung 8 (1991), 640 and is from the same obverse die as the coin shown by David. I think it fetched 90'000 DM at the time, but I don't have the realized prices at hand.

As far as I know, the authenticity of the Aufhäuser coin has been doubted in the past, but a second specimen from the same obverse die, if it indeed was freshly dug up, would very much speak for it. Reminds me of the two Domitianus II. coins.

Lars
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Adrian W
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 06:24:43 am »

I am suprised this did not make the headlines in any of the British Newspapers as something like this would have been reported on and I cannot find any evidence of
such
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2012, 08:54:51 am »

Think I've found the reverse photo on the FB group page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/andrewfudge/). 

Finder say major auction house are collecting it for auction in March 2013.  Spink have an ancient coin auction in March 2013.
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2012, 09:09:57 am »

The reverse die appears to be the same, too.

Lars
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HELEN S
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 06:31:57 am »

 a friend of mine has put a photo up on a uk forum page and says his friend has found it
its a very lucky find  a once in a lifetime find for a detectorist to discover something so rare  Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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BiancasDad
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2012, 10:43:22 am »

Update from the finder of the coin:

"UPDATE ON THE COIN OF PROCULUS. Hi everyone just to keep you all upto date. The coin as now been recorded and verified on " United kingdom finds database" and also recorded with the Yorkshire museum. The auction house Dix Noonan Webb will be picking our coin up on Friday to safely transport it to London, where the publicity can start nationally and internationaly. Presale estimate of £50000 to £80000."

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

-Kurt
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 11:46:04 am »

Here is a couple of links that give a bit more information:

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=39525&limit=recent

and

http://www.minelab.com/consumer/success-stories/ultimate-rare-roman-coin-found-in-uk

Whoever was asking about metal detectors in another thread, take note!
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Peter, London

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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2012, 01:26:23 pm »

Whoever was asking about metal detectors in another thread, take note!

That was me asking.........and I have taken note. Thx
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David J6
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2012, 09:29:29 am »

Update from the finder of the coin:

"UPDATE ON THE COIN OF PROCULUS. Hi everyone just to keep you all upto date. The coin as now been recorded and verified on " United kingdom finds database" and also recorded with the Yorkshire museum. The auction house Dix Noonan Webb will be picking our coin up on Friday to safely transport it to London, where the publicity can start nationally and internationaly. Presale estimate of £50000 to £80000."

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

-Kurt


So guys what price do you think this coin will make? below or above estimate?... Undecided

The guy has been made offers from private collectors and dealers for £60,000 already!  my guess will be £90,000!
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Andrew McCabe
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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 10:00:19 am »


So guys what price do you think this coin will make? below or above estimate?... Undecided

The guy has been made offers from private collectors and dealers for £60,000 already!  my guess will be £90,000!

My vote: well below the numbers you quote, or, more likely, be unsold due to not meeting its reserve. This forum doesn't really welcome discussions of prices, but a digression into how the coin market works is perhaps ok here. The nature of such a coin is it depends on having two extremely keen and probably slightly insane buyers to push up the price (or not). At essence, this is a not-very-attractive but historically interesting coin. Bear in mind that there are thousands of other ancient coin types which are only known in a few examples, i.e. just as rare as this. Being extremely rare, and/or not being in any standard catalogue, often justifies a coin selling for a few hundred pounds (rather than a few tens of pounds). This example may justify a stronger price from those who wish to complete their all-emperors collection, but it probably requires putting reason to one side to bid to the levels you quote, given that one can get other amazingly rare, historically interesting but much more attractive coins for much less than those sorts of prices. If there is one extremely keen and probably insane bidder, and other quite keen bidders, it might fetch a modest amount (much less than the numbers being talked about). If there are two extremely keen and totally insane bidders it might be bid up to a more serious amount. But, for a coin such as this, a 'serious amount' might still be a fraction of the numbers suggested, and the coin might be unsold if the auction put such a reserve on it. Frankly, if this was my small bronze, and there were really offers of the nature you talk about, I wouldn't even consider waiting to see if it - might - fetch an insane price, given the potentially much higher risk of it never selling at all.
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Proculus coin found whats it worth? « previous next »
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