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Author Topic: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin  (Read 2100 times)

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Offline monetanova

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2.92 gms, 18.5 mm. Thanks for any input.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 01:40:02 pm »
Looks like an imitation of this common denarius of Geta as Caesar:
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Offline mauseus

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 01:40:10 pm »
Hi,

Obverse looks to be Geta (P SEPT GETA....), the reverse PRINC IVVENT.

Style very odd even for an imitation, Indian perhaps?

Regards,

Mauseus

Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 01:44:31 pm »
Thank you, it's definitely Geta. It was found together with celtic ones like this one, so no - not eastern imitation.

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 02:16:20 pm »
It reminds me of a Celtic Durotriges Silver Stater especially with the pellets
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Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 02:23:59 pm »
Now I see some similarities in style - particularly how nose was cut in the dies  ::)

rick2

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 02:45:39 pm »
where was it found ?

it looks like the sort of imitative coin that is normally found on the other side of the danube

http://www.museum.com.ua/expo/varvar_en.html

here s a link

there s 300 years difference between the celt durotriges and this coin


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Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 03:23:18 pm »
Coins were found in alpine Swiss/Germany. As for imitations in general you can't be for sure about timeline here - as celts were imitating not just greek and roman coins, but other celtic tribes as well. I personally see similarities with Boii and Vindelici tribes (five peller star above horse). Later I will post an celtic bronze coin accompanied with these.

Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 03:37:34 pm »
Here is the bronze coin. Any ideas about source of inspiration here?

rick2

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2012, 04:44:46 pm »
the latest coin seems of greek inspiration to me.


so the top coin , the geta denarius was found in switzerland near the german border ?

that would make it even more interesting......

Offline areich

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rick2

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2012, 04:48:21 pm »
the last one does not look barbaric to me , it looks official

it would be very strange if all this coins were found in switzerland on the german border

Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 05:07:24 pm »
Thank you, areich - bingo! And again this big, cubism inspired nose. For sure not greek proportions here ;-)

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 08:00:36 pm »
contemporary fake

When referring to ancient coins...

Fake should only be used when referring to modern copies or ancient coins that have been altered.  A fake patina or modern patina is an intentionally created chemically induced patina.   

Forgery should only be used when referring to modern fakes meant to deceive collectors.  An ancient counterfeit may also be called a forgery but I prefer to use the more specific term counterfeit for forgeries that were intended to circulate as money

Replica refers to modern fakes that are not meant to deceive collectors.   

A "tourist fake" is a fake sold by locals at ancient sites, often misrepresented as genuine, but which will not deceive most collectors.  Tourist fakes sometimes do not even remotely resemble a genuine ancient coin type and are often less realistic than replicas.  Before describing a coin as a tourist fake, consider that your comment may insult the owner because it implies they lack basic knowledge and perhaps should have known better.     

Counterfeit refers to ancient fakes meant to circulate as the genuine original.  Many of these are plated counterfeits, called fouree (various spellings possible).  Counterfeit is sometimes used to describe modern fakes made to deceive collectors but I prefer to use the term counterfeit only for forgeries intended to circulate as money (ancient forgeries).  For greater clarity "ancient counterfeit" is better than just "counterfeit" and "modern forgery" is better than "modern counterfeit." 

The term "contemporary counterfeit" is sometimes used to describe ancient counterfeits (genuinely ancient coins but from an illegal or unofficial mint).  "Contemporary" has multiple meanings, two of which follow: 1) existing, occurring, or living at the same time, 2) of the present time, modern.  See the problem?  We have received many questions from new collectors confused by the use of the term contemporary.  "Contemporary" should not be used to describe any coin, modern or ancient, official or unofficial. 

To remove any possible confusion, we recommend using the terms "ancient counterfeit" and "modern forgery" and avoiding the terms "contemporary counterfeit," "contemporary forgery," "ancient forgery" and "modern counterfeit."     

Imitative refers to ancient coins that copy another type, but which probably were not meant to circulate as the genuine original.  Some imitative types were used as currency in an area outside the area the original coin was issued.  Some may have been used as substitutes for the original coin in areas where coinage was in short supply. 

Barbaric imitative refers to imitative coins of a non-Greek or non-Roman style, usually but not always crude.   

Tooled or tooling refers to mechanical alteration of a coin, for example engraving to change the letters of the legend or to sharpen details of a portrait.  Smoothed or smoothing refers to a less damaging form of tooling that penetrates beyond the patina and into the metal but which is limited to smoothing rough surfaces. Smoothing does not include strengthening, changing, or creating detail. 

Not Recommended                      Preferred Alternative
contemporary counterfeit             ancient counterfeit
contemporary forgery                  ancient counterfeit
ancient forgery                            ancient counterfeit
ancient fake                                ancient counterfeit
modern counterfeit                      modern forgery
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Offline monetanova

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Re: Please help to ID strange barbarous silver Roman denarius size coin
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2012, 05:22:14 am »
Another interesting imitation - any ideas for the source denarii coin?

 

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