Julius Caesar forgery

[Andrew McCabe]

See below. Offered on ebay, seller not yet on NFSL, I have written to him and pointed out the match with
http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=COuMeiGDPzU=
3 day sale, advertised as being "from my personal collection". $99 start. Sounds pretty deliberate to me, but lets see how he replies (I sent him the forgerynetwork link)

[cmcdon0923]

Is the link you posted complete?

I looked through 26 JC pieces under the FORGERY category and didn't see a match.

[9meno]

now i see thank you Andrew im still learning on fake coins i did think this coin was authentic but i'll keep
training my eyes on fake denarius : )

[Romanorvm]

Maybe this one. Surely the reverse at least. I think the obverse also. It's just in a different state of wear and a different centering and flan size. Still a Slavey die. From the FN a few pages from the one Andrew linked to.  

[areich]

No one could seriously think this was an authentic ancient coin.

[Robert S.]

No one could seriously think this was an authentic ancient coin.

Well the coin does looks wierd but i don't see a match with the fake coin that was posted also there are many different mints of that era the only way to see if it's genuine is on hand.


  Regards Robert S.

[Andrew McCabe]

No one could seriously think this was an authentic ancient coin.

Well the coin does look ok but i don't see a match with the fake coin that was posted also there are many different mints of that era the only way to see if it's genuine is on hand.


  Regards Robert S.

It does not look ok. It's clearly a modern fake as its style and fabric are not ancient.

[Volodya]

Well the coin does look ok but i don't see a match with the fake coin that was posted also there are many different mints of that era the only way to see if it's genuine is on hand.
  Regards Robert S.

This coin IS a die match for the one in the forgery reports. There is no chance--ZERO--that either is ancient. It's certainly true that well-made casts made from genuine coins, or modern pieces struck from new dies transferred from ancient coins, sometimes need in-hand examination to be detected. That's emphatically NOT true though of coins struck from newly engraved dies. That's the case here, and the photo is quite sufficient to determine that it's modern. In-hand examination would add nothing.

What IS quite possible is that the coin in question is actually a cast from a struck forgery such as the one in the reports: A fake of a fake. That's not unprecedented.

Phil Davis

[Arminius]

A fake.

 

[Joe Sermarini]

Fake coin reports please.

[Andrew McCabe]

The seller's typically pathetic reply below:

"Hi, this coin has bought me many years in France and the numismatic that have never been told is false, and the link you showed me is not nothing like mine."

So he is claiming ignorance ("I have never been told it is false"), and doesn't care to look for the evident die matches in FN. Perhaps some others might write in to him to reduce his ignorance. Listing has a few hours to run and is at $152. I wrote back to him pointing out the double-die-match posted by Romanorvm.

[Andrew McCabe]

I wrote back to him pointing out the double-die-match posted by Romanorvm.

He replied by including an ebay-generated link to the sales listing for the fake (nothing more), as if inviting me to bid on the item. Another scoundrel.

[Adrian W]

oh wow  I cannot believe what it just sold for

[9meno]

How much did it sell for? : )

[Romanorvm]

How much did it sell for? : )

I think it was right about $361. 

[9meno]

wow i do hope who ever bought that coin does realized it's fake : )

[Andrew McCabe]

How much did it sell for? : )

I think it was right about $361. 

The buyer probably deserves what he got. Were it real, it would retail for over $1k. Anyone who thinks he can get a bargain on ebay, yet is not an expert in what he buys, and does not personally know the seller, will learn the hard way that there there is nothing except fakes and misery on ebay for non-experts. Sometimes these fakes sell at 'bargain' prices. Sometimes they sell at 'full' prices. It hardly matters, the price (or the seller ratings) indicates nothing at all. At some point in the next few years the buyer will realise the item is fake and will be "shocked, shocked" to discover. He only has himself to blame. Yet even among wise readers of Forum I read about collectors whose strategy is to buy inexpensive items which they are uncertain about, from sellers they do not know, on ebay. One might as well buy buttons.

[Lloyd]

.... One might as well buy buttons.

   At least buttons have a use!  eBay fakes are good for nothing but landfill, from whence to entertain collectors a millennium or so hence.

[Joe Sermarini]

The buyer probably deserves what he got...

I don't think the buyer deserved to be the victim of fraud.  We may understand that if something seems too good to be true it probably is, but some people just aren't that smart. 

[Andrew McCabe]

The buyer probably deserves what he got...

I don't think the buyer deserved to be the victim of fraud.  We may understand that if something seems too good to be true it probably is, but some people just aren't that smart.  

Yes you are right of course Joe. It's just so frustrating to see (two) bidders expecting to win an "authentic" Julius Caesar portrait in VF condition for $300 or so. People on this site do all they can to prevent this (e.g. the string of messages sent to seller, and highlighting the fake on this site). But no amount of online advice and intervention seems to help with hardcore fake sellers. Sometimes I think the only way that bidders on such items will STOP bidding on ebay fakes is to get burnt on a resale. I know this is an inappropriate thought to have!

[Adrian W]

On the ones I bought and got verified as fakes the sellers have given me my money back and have apologized for selling such and say it was not intentional
which then leaves me with a feedback dilemma as to what to do ?.Some based on what I have learned here do it intentionally and others not but who's to decide who is telling the truth and the other not.In these instances I have not left feedback at all as if I leave a positive but make a note that it was a fake coin but seller refunded it just gets lost in the feedback.I could leave a negative but they did fix the situation or just leave a neutral.Hard to know what to do.

Some people will still buy regardless anyway

[Andrew McCabe]

On the ones I bought and got verified as fakes the sellers have given me my money back and have apologized for selling such and say it was not intentional
which then leaves me with a feedback dilemma as to what to do ?.Some based on what I have learned here do it intentionally and others not but who's to decide who is telling the truth and the other not.I

I would always leave Negatives for any seller who sells you a fake on eBay, irrespective of their intentions. 95% of the time they sold the fake either deliberately or perhaps negligently. Under the best construct they still deserve a negative for their negligence. 5% of the time a good fake may have bamboozled a good dealer, but I think a negative is the only fair response to everyone. For one thing, YOU may think these are decent dealers, only to see them on the NFSL list at a later date. And a good dealer can survive a single negative.

Please bear in mind that it is a standard "technique" for crooks (sellers of fakes) to provide a quick and pleasant refund in order to maintain their rating. They count on most people never returning the fakes, and on the small percentage who do return, they count on a quick refund preventing a negative.

Leave negatives. Please.

[TRPOT]

On the ones I bought and got verified as fakes the sellers have given me my money back and have apologized for selling such and say it was not intentional
which then leaves me with a feedback dilemma as to what to do ?.Some based on what I have learned here do it intentionally and others not but who's to decide who is telling the truth and the other not.In these instances I have not left feedback at all as if I leave a positive but make a note that it was a fake coin but seller refunded it just gets lost in the feedback.I could leave a negative but they did fix the situation or just leave a neutral.Hard to know what to do.

Some people will still buy regardless anyway

It doesn't matter. Nobody really pays any attention unless it's a new seller.

I think these high-volume e-bay sellers are not necessarily dishonest. They just barely spend any time looking at each coin.

[Marco Polo]

Please, trouble. I have bought him expediently. They will not buy this forgery other already. I will check if it has made expediently, if it did not know that it fals. Authentic would cost 1500 EURO ok Julius Caesar (Divus Julius Caesar Denarius. 40 BC. Q Voconius Vitulus (Cr526/2, Syd 1132, RSC).I think, that it will not expose she on auction already more. I wait for justification selling, because it did not answer by 3 days. As there will not be justification expose proper note.

I thank all for answers very.
Marco

[Andrew McCabe]

Please, trouble. I have bought him expediently. They will not buy this forgery other already. I will check if it has made expediently, if it did not know that it fals. Authentic would cost 1500 EURO ok Julius Caesar (Divus Julius Caesar Denarius. 40 BC. Q Voconius Vitulus (Cr526/2, Syd 1132, RSC).I think, that it will not expose she on auction already more. I wait for justification selling, because it did not answer by 3 days. As there will not be justification expose proper note.

I thank all for answers very.
Marco

Marco,

You are brave! (I would not recommend to buy a forgery just to prevent others buying it!). It may cause you some trouble with eBay. If possible, please do not pay for the forgery.

Andrew