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Author Topic: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta  (Read 1210 times)

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Offline FlaviusDomitianus

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Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« on: July 26, 2012, 04:32:19 pm »
Hello everyone.

This coin was auctioned as a Vespasian quadrans.

The picture was pretty bad, but I recognized Titus.

Now I have the coin in hand and it looks like RIC 369 (Vespasian), a denarius struck in Rome in 72-73 a.D. (Antiochia's version of the same coin - RIC 1562 of Vespasian - has  bust draped).

I'm reckoning if it could be a formerly fourree denarius, losing its silver film.

The measures are: 18 mm - 3,24 g - die axis 6.

I'm posting for comparison a solid silver specimen, sold by N.A.C. some years ago.

Kind regards.


Offline David Atherton

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2012, 05:44:12 pm »
My guess would be a fourree with the silver worn away. I wonder how much it would've weighed with the silver plating?

A very neat find!

Offline Snegovik

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 05:49:50 pm »
I might still be solid silver. For comparison, here is a Sidonian fraction as it arrived and after cleaning:
 
Illegitimi non carborundum

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 05:57:15 pm »
I might still be solid silver. For comparison, here is a Sidonian fraction as it arrived and after cleaning:
 

A possibility, considering the style, weight, and size is all correct. The only thing missing is the silver!

Offline Snegovik

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 06:03:28 pm »
It was missing from my coin as well. And then reappeared.
Illegitimi non carborundum

Offline FlaviusDomitianus

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 06:07:02 pm »
What did you use to taste metal?

Offline justus

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2012, 11:29:03 pm »
I'm reckoning if it could be a formerly fourree denarius, losing its silver film.

Hi FlaviusDomitianus,

I don't think this could be the "anime" of a former Fouree Denarius. In my opinion it's a so called "Limes Denarius", an contemporary, non-ferrous metal (Bronze) forgery, which was used as "emergency money" at the roman border regions of Danube and Rhine. They were casted in molds, not minted.

Limes Denarii -----> https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3702

Although I don't agree with all explanations given there, here's a link with some informations about "Limes Denarii" -----> https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=limes%20denarius

best IVSTVS
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Offline FlaviusDomitianus

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 03:32:41 am »
Thanks Justus for your opinion.

Actually the coin is sharper than "anime" of fourree denarii usually are.

Offline FlaviusDomitianus

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2012, 12:35:12 pm »
I've tried to identify the density of metal.

I managed to get a graduated fit and have immersed the coin in water.

Then I've repeated the experiment with a Vespasian's denarius of the same weight (3,24 grams).

The displacement of water was found absolutely identical for the two coins.

It 'is therefore possible that also the denarius of Titus is silver even if completely covered by oxidation.

I think however that I will not attempt to clean it.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2012, 06:57:11 pm »
Personally I would clean it. It's a very rare and desirable type of Titus as Caesar from Rome which looks to be in decent shape. However, I can understand your decision to leave it as is...better safe than sorry.

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Titus copper denarius - Iudaea Capta
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2012, 08:00:26 pm »
I would leave it.  How often do we get to see a denarius in "as found" condition?

 

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