Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 31, 2014, 09:17:16 pm
Search Calendar Login Register  

Recent Additions to Forum's Shop


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Webmasters (Moderator: Sorin)  |  Topic: munzeo.com, a new search engine (some .7 mil coin records and growing) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2  All Go Down Print
Author Topic: munzeo.com, a new search engine (some .7 mil coin records and growing)  (Read 7578 times)
munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« on: July 07, 2012, 06:59:34 am »

Hi everybody,

Just wanted to point out and possibly get some comments/feedback on a new website we've been developing. It's an ancient/ world coin search engine, that uses data from online electronic actions.
Most of the leading auction websites are rather versatile (i.e. ancient coins and, say, used electronics) and coin searching is by far not the easiest, not to mention they delete data after a few months, so we though it'd be nice if the coin info could stay online and be made available to the public. That's not the first website of this kind we've worked on; I know there could be a number of typical issues, but for the sake of coin collecting goodness, could we just focus on making it a nice and useful search tool..  Grin

the website is available here:

 arrowright http://munzeo.com

and a facebook page...

http://www.facebook.com/munzeo

please do give it a try  laugh
Logged
Andrew McCabe
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3960



WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 07:17:43 am »

munzeo

Thanks for the link. Before I try to use it, could you explain how muzeo differs or improves on the the normal coin database and search engines used by everyone here, i.e. http://www.acsearch.info/ and http://www.mcsearch.info/, or http://coinproject.com/. If you are introducing a new website with the same or similar coverage as an existing and excellent website then I think it's important for you to explain why we should go to your website rather than stick with the existing, and very reliable tools. If it doesn't improve on existing facilities there would be no reason to change.

Andrew
Logged

Maffeo
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 446



« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 07:35:50 am »

The search function is inadequate:

I wanted to see what I could find of folles of Severus II from Aquileia. so in the "keywords" I inserted: follis Severus Aquileia - and nothing came up.

Then I inserted: follis Severus - nothing came up.

Then I inserted: follis Aquileia - nothing cam up.

But when I inserted the single words follis, Aquileia, Severus far too many items cam up to go through.

If the search function can't be refined to deal with at least three words, it's pretty much useless.
Logged

Propter quod unumquodque, et illud magis.
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9424



WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 09:16:03 am »

I alos couldn't find coins for some common key words. Another concern, the database contains coins from at least one known fake seller:

http://munzeo.com/coin/gela-silver-tetradrachm-105-15329708

I didn't check further but this is a major disadvantage in my eyes. I assume this is an archive of Ebay sales only? With a better search function it could have its uses and in this case it is probably not easily possible to remove all the junk and fakes. It would be good if users could choose how many coins to display per page and if there could be a number of results returned.
Logged

Andrew McCabe
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3960



WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 09:19:40 am »

Yes I just searched under category Rome, keyword Republic. It returned just 6 coins, including one of Valentinian and one fake.

I don't think the owners of http://www.acsearch.info or of http://coinproject.com will be quaking in their boots.
Logged

areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9424



WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 09:24:17 am »

If it's an Ebay archive it offers something different. With a decent search function it can be useful for research. I regularly see coins on Ebay that I haven't seen before and I often forget to save the pictures.
Logged

Mat
Caesar
****
Online Online

Posts: 857


Ancient Coin Addict


« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 09:28:02 am »

If it's an Ebay archive it offers something different. With a decent search function it can be useful for research. I regularly see coins on Ebay that I haven't seen before and I often forget to save the pictures.

Agreed, I gave this site a chance just on some random phrases and I liked it overall.

I agree I wouldnt mind seeing some fakes removed from the listing.

Also some ebay sellers seem to be ignored in the search, like Ancient Treasures
Logged

MY GALLERY

MJB Ancients
munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2012, 02:26:44 am »

Thank you for your comments!

We aren't trying to compete with the existing coin search engines; no point in reinventing the wheel. Quite the contrary, we try to provide supportive data which is not available elsewhere. I'd really like to congratulate acsearch.info and coinproject.com for their effort and hard work; we use those as well  Wink

Yes, we do get data from ebay, although we'd like to go further. Still, if you think about it, tens of thousands of coins make it on ebay every month and some rare (although low-er-ish quality) coins may only be found there.


Maffeo, are you looking for this:
http://munzeo.com/follis-severus-aquileia/sort-0
There was little bug, but now it is gone.

Andrew McCabe, categories might require some more work, but for now here is page number 100 for keyword "Republic" and
category "Roman": http://munzeo.com/roman/republic/page-100-sort-0

areich, best way to deal with this would be if fakes are community-identified; i.e. something like a "like"/"dislike" feature we see on large websites such as youtube. If a coin receives too many dislikes, it gets marked as a potential fake. Development and coding take quite some work though, such a feature might take a while.

Mat, we'll likely see some sellers come and go.. I'll check if/why Ancient Treasures is or isn't in there.
Logged
helcaraxe
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 453


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2012, 03:01:36 am »

As an ebay archive it is most useful, but I do strongly suggest, that the abundant fakes are removed from the database or at least marked fake. I know that it is not easy to do that manually, but you could add a button where users can mark them FAKE and those are then clearly marked (in different colours) in the database.

Semper pax
helcaraxe
Logged

Andrew McCabe
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3960



WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 04:01:03 am »

I have quite a few further comments - but firstly on a positive note the layout is clean and simple and easy on the eye, and the concept of an ebay-archive is a good one, and does not overlap with other websites. But some of the many points commented on here would need fixing.

I think it is critical to note the difference between "unsold" and "winning bid" coins. It would be best in the case of unsold coins to remove the value entirely. Because it isn't the coin's value. Clearly, if the minimum bid was fair value, the coin would have sold, ergo.... For example the following coin is marked as $500 winning bid:
http://munzeo.com/coin/roman-republic-anonymous-sextans-mercury-13986227
As the coin is worth about $25 I can pretty much guarantee it did not sell at all.

Another factor to consider is copyright - you are copying dealers entire listings, including the sale information and the photos. Normally you should ask permission. [PS I notice you do actually link to their listings]. Whilst on the subject of listings, it would be better if you could delete all the generic sale information (shipping, guarantees etc) and leave just the coin description. I realise this requires manual intervention...

I am assuming the "gold equivalent" is being provided by you to attract advertising links to gold shops. Fair enough if that's the case. If not, I would leave it off, I doubt anyone seriously is interested in it.

A button where I could click "fake" would help a lot. You would have to have it highlighted as such "this coin was noted as fake by x different visitors" or such like.

The listing under the category "Republic" seems to mirror the eBay "Roman Republic" category where many things are listed that don't have any relation to the Roman Republic. I guess you have some sort of app that pulls the pic and description off ebay, but human intervention to check the category would help a lot.
Logged

Jochen
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10210


Homo sum nil humanum a me alienum puto.


« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 04:04:24 am »

Many coins are double or triple! And for browsing the data bank, the pics are too small for my eyes! The idea itself is not so bad.

Jochen
Logged

Arae Flaviae, Agri Decumates
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10672
Maffeo
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 446



« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 07:56:36 am »

Perhaps the most useful thing would be a databank of fakes on Ebay - there's certainly ample material  Grin
Logged

Propter quod unumquodque, et illud magis.
Robert_Brenchley
Comitia Curiata X
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7551

Honi soit qui mal y pense.


WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 03:53:50 pm »

There's one here.
Logged

Robert Brenchley

My gallery: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2012, 04:14:31 pm »

I think it is critical to note the difference between "unsold" and "winning bid" coins. It would be best in the case of unsold coins to remove the value entirely. Because it isn't the coin's value. Clearly, if the minimum bid was fair value, the coin would have sold, ergo.... For example the following coin is marked as $500 winning bid:
http://munzeo.com/coin/roman-republic-anonymous-sextans-mercury-13986227
As the coin is worth about $25 I can pretty much guarantee it did not sell at all.

Dear Andrew McCabe,
If coin is offered as "Buy It Now" it hasn't any bids. Even more - it could not be sold at all but the price might be real because you had been able to click on "Buy It Now" and buy it for declared price.
All new coins which are sold this way will be marked and this information will be available. Unfortunately for now coins with no info exist.
If you want to be sure about the price don't trust coins with "No info" in "Number of bids" field.

Perhaps seller of the coin you mentioned above placed the bid him/herself and after that declined.
Here is the original listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=180866465010&viewitem=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

"Fake" button is now available. Try it out!
I hope it would help to find out the real price.
Logged
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9424



WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2012, 02:17:51 am »

What is most important to me now is a better search function where you can exclude words, use *, etc. Also very important are the number of results and a better navigation through the pages. Right now, if I search for a word, I have no idea how many results have been found, usually just that there must be at least 100, because there are at least 10 pages with 10 coins each. A way to display more than 10 coins per page would also be useful.
Logged

Andrew McCabe
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3960



WWW
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2012, 03:04:22 am »

I think it is critical to note the difference between "unsold" and "winning bid" coins. It would be best in the case of unsold coins to remove the value entirely. Because it isn't the coin's value. Clearly, if the minimum bid was fair value, the coin would have sold, ergo.... For example the following coin is marked as $500 winning bid:
http://munzeo.com/coin/roman-republic-anonymous-sextans-mercury-13986227
As the coin is worth about $25 I can pretty much guarantee it did not sell at all.
Perhaps seller of the coin you mentioned above placed the bid him/herself and after that declined.
Here is the original listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=180866465010&viewitem=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

"Fake" button is now available. Try it out!
I hope it would help to find out the real price.

Thanks for the "fake" button. On the coin you linked to, there was an offer which was declined. So the coin was not sold to anyone, and so should not have a price listed. Even when offers are accepted, one has no idea what the price was. The selling price might be a small fraction the asking price. Perhaps for coins sold under offer, the word "offer" might be used instead of a price. As with areich's comment, I think at least 100 coins per page is essential. We are in the age of fast internet!
Logged

quisquam
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 581



« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2012, 11:36:00 pm »

Thanks for putting the database online. Apart from the critics already mentioned above it's a welcome addition to the databases already on the net to me.

What I don't understand is giving the price equivalent in gold.

What I would like is recording the itemnumber of the popular sales platform.

Regards, Stefan
Logged
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9424



WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 03:55:14 am »

What use is the item number? After 3 months or so, it is no longer accessible on Ebay and they probably reuse them later.
Logged

quisquam
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 581



« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 05:41:03 am »

Well, the item number is part of the pedigree of a coin and I don't think eBay reuses them. But it's true, it's not possible to view the listing with the help of the number after some time. So it's of little use, but still nice to have as a reference.

Regards, Stefan
Logged
helcaraxe
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 453


WWW
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 01:22:54 pm »

Thanks for the fake button too, I just gave a few fake clicks on otho denarii.

Well, I soon get bored. Too much fakes.... :-(

Anyway, with the opinions given here, you should be able to improve your site. It is of some - though limited - use. Don't get discouraged.

Semper pax
helcaraxe
Logged

munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2012, 02:20:44 pm »

You are right - 100 per page is better.
Logged
munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 02:44:53 am »

What I don't understand is giving the price equivalent in gold.

Equivalent in gold feature on Munzeo.com gives you more realistic values of coins over time. It shows how much gold (in grams) you had been able to buy at auction date with money given for the coin.

You know the value of money changes. But gold is gold. So, to determine the current price of certain coin you can take its equivalent in gold and multiply by price of gold today.

For example:
Equivalent in gold for this auction http://munzeo.com/coin/cloelius-denarius-biga-horse-silver-9533 is 15.69 grams. On 15 June 2010 the coin had been sold for 505 euros.
Today (17 July 2012) gold price is 41.68 euros per gram. http://goldprice.org/gold-price-euros.html
So, 15.69 × 41.68 = 653.96 euros.
653.96 euros is more realistic price than 505 euros for this coin today.
Logged
quisquam
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 581



« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 11:29:13 am »

I see your point, but I still don't think it's usefull. Gold is not gold, it's value changes, too. Not only because the value of money changes. To a great extend it's value reflects the confidence in 'fiat money' at the moment, for example.

Keep in mind that the gold price dropped from 1981 to 2001 and from 2001 on was rising dramatically, while we had inflation all the time, I think. To my mind it's not a good idea to try to transform old prices in recent prices at all, there are too many uncertainties.

Btw, the coin you chose is not a good example. The most expensive coin of this type on acsearch that I could find sold for 350 Euros mid 2011 and was in a much better condition. This coin was overpaid in 2010 and 650 Euro (800 USD approx.) today would be even more over the top, to my mind.

I have no problem with listing the gold equivalent if you find it useful, of course.

Regards, Stefan
Logged
munzeo
Legionary
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 05:34:40 am »

New search option is now available - Only sold.
If it is checked only sold coins appear in the search results.
Sold coins are those which were listed as "Buy it now" and were sold or have more than 0 bids.

Try the option and tell me if any problems occur.
Logged
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9424



WWW
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 02:58:12 am »

What's most important in my opinion is a better search function.  I don't care about the prices and I don't think they are useful anyway.

Here's a coin where one side is missing.

http://munzeo.com/coin/ionia-smyrna-herakles-bronze-river-14162785

I don't know if it was missing in the original listing as well but I don't think so.

Here's another one:

http://munzeo.com/coin/helios-lot-bronze-thyateira-lydia-14130884

and another:

http://munzeo.com/coin/lydia-magnesia-sipylum-herakles-bronze-14129232

There seems to be a systematic error here. Most coins I looked at had only one picture.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2  All Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Webmasters (Moderator: Sorin)  |  Topic: munzeo.com, a new search engine (some .7 mil coin records and growing) « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 4.622 seconds with 74 queries.