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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Some Greek Gold, Real or Fake? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Some Greek Gold, Real or Fake?  (Read 715 times)
Mat
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« on: April 23, 2012, 04:20:19 pm »

I have an e-friend who wants to know if these are fake or real. They are from a person who inherited a world coin collection and alot of modern gold but these were in it as well as that persons photos. He is interested in purchasing them.

Other then weight and such he also wanted to know how to tell in-hand.

I know nothing about greek gold so the pictures are below, maybe someone can tell me so I can relay the message.









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MJB Ancients
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 04:30:35 pm »

Matt

Your friend should ask for close up photos of reverse and obverse for each coin outside the plastic sleeve. Also he should insist on weights and size.

Since these are commonly faked and not inexpensive, I would recommend not buying anything without first satisfying those prerequisites.

BR

Mark
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 04:32:36 pm »

Actually no correct judgement is possible by these and only these pictures.

From what i can see: Gold is such a soft material - why can we see such perfect smooth surfaces after more than 2000 years HuhHuhHuh?
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Lloyd Taylor
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 07:26:34 pm »

Actually no correct judgement is possible by these and only these pictures.

Not entirely so...How many Athens gold issues do you know of?

The most probable conclusion re the second coin is thus ....?

Some history on the only Athens AV issues ..
Suffering from a lack of funds late in the Peloponnesian War, Athens struck its first gold coinage, a clear sign of an economic emergency and one documented in the annual Parthenon inventories. In 413 BC, the Spartans captured Dekeleia and thereby cut off Athens from its main silver source at Laurion. By 407/6 BC, the need to raise funds for the city's defense became so desperate that the authorities ordered the melting down of available gold, including seven gold statues of Nike, which subsequently disappear from the inventory. The gold from this, comprising 14 talents, was then struck in six denominations, from staters to hemiobols. Once these coins were struck, the dies were then deposited in an alabaster box in the Parthenon treasury to ensure that they could not be misused (IG II 2.2, 665).  Virtually all known examples of the emergency issue of gold coinage are in museum collections ... one of the rare exceptions exceptions below (one of five Athenian AV diobols known)... stylistically this is much later than the owl of the coin above... another pointer to fakery as the style of the owl is only to be found on silver issues of the earlier fifth century in which no gold coinage was ever issued by Athens... without doubt it is a fake!

For more on the history of the coinage of Athens this is a nice summary http://www.eie.gr/archaeologia/En/chapter_more_7.aspx

As for the others the pictures preclude an exact match to material in Fakes database but they look suspiciously familiar to some listed fakes I have seen... the reverses of coins 1,3 & 4 plus the obverses of 2 and 5 would help in establishing the match to known fakes.....

Comment: I have to say that I cannot understand why anyone remotely familiar with numismatics posts one side of a coin in a grubby plastic flip with the genuine intent of seeking a view on authenticity. As for the provenance of these probable fakes... where have I heard this story before?  Huh

Edit: I am not even sure that these coins are gold .... based on the photos more likely some golden colored alloy, particularly the last one.
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Robert_Brenchley
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 01:29:20 pm »

Take them out of the flips, make decent-sized pics of each side - about 350 pixels across - post each one in a separate thread, and we might have a chance. Right now I have serious doubts. What's expensive gold doing in those cheap flips?
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 05:40:06 pm »

What's expensive gold doing in those cheap flips?

I've had a lot of expensive coins arrive from auction houses in cheap flips (I just got a silver siliqua last week that cost high four figures and it was in the worst flip I've ever seen). I shift them all over to stiff mylar flips that I got from Forum a number of years ago. I don't need them to fold over so I cut them in half.

   Richard
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Some Greek Gold, Real or Fake? « previous next »
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