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Author Topic: Southern Italy, Lead(?)  (Read 1785 times)

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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« on: February 20, 2012, 09:33:56 am »


The tag says it was found in southern Italy, 2.015 g, 16.4 mm.  It appears to be lead.  Any assistance with attribution will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks, Joe

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Offline Marcus Lepidus

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 11:08:56 am »
The symbolism of this triangle is unknown to me. But at the other side looks like wishbone
Sorry, i do not know what is the obverse/reverse on this one
Vincit qui se vincit

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 12:16:13 pm »
If You turn the triangel 180 degrees, it starts to
remind the coat of arms of Aragonian kingdom.

Pekka K

edit: in this coin

Offline Altamura

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 03:12:10 pm »
The symbol on the right side could be a spur (used for riding).

Regards

Altamura

Offline Marcus Lepidus

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 03:20:16 pm »
If You turn the triangel 180 degrees, it starts to
remind the coat of arms of Aragonian kingdom.

Pekka K

edit: in this coin


To me these two triangles look very different. The inside of the triangle is quite different
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Offline Enodia

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 03:33:27 pm »
it looks to me like a pyramid/headdress of Isis.

Offline Tony A

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 05:34:24 pm »
Hadrian used the crescent and star symbol on several reverses to symbolize "rape and conquest", but since the item was found in Southern Italy, it may be related to the Arab conquest of Sicily, raiding, or trade. The crescent and various triangle designs were common Islamic symbols and contact was sort of a dirty little secret.
Best to all,
Tony

Offline alexius

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 02:03:20 pm »
It does not look Islamic and the Arab contact in Sicily was hardly a "dirty little secret".

Offline Tony A

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 03:22:22 pm »
"Dirty little secret" was the wrong phrase, certainly, but while there were calls for Crusades, there was a lot of "descrete" trading going on that was rather "uncomfortable" for some parties. I don't know what this figure is, but I found a lot of different designs (especially on the triangles) when I looked up "ancient crescent and triangle patterns," and quite a few of them happened to be Arab in origin. Another possibility is that the symbol is related to one of the trade guilds, but I'm not sure how prevalent they were in Southern Italy.

The ball is still in play ...

Best,

Tony

Offline Enodia

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 04:50:27 pm »
it looks to me like a pyramid/headdress of Isis.

found some interesting images...

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 01:04:21 am »
I believe it is medieval and I think not refering to Egypt but I really don't know.
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Offline alexius

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 03:53:30 am »
"Dirty little secret" was the wrong phrase, certainly, but while there were calls for Crusades, there was a lot of "descrete" trading going on that was rather "uncomfortable" for some parties.

Tony

I still don't think this assertion is correct. You might like to have a look at the medieval coinage of Sicily. As to the object could it be an item of horse decoration?


Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 08:08:51 am »
I agree say trade between Muslims and Christians was secrete, discreet, or even uncomfortable is inaccurate. 

It is much too small to have been a horse decoration and there is no attachment for it to have been used as a decoration of any sort.  It is a token. 

I am not sure if the photo on the left is correct or upsided down.  I do think it might be upside down and it might be a coat of arms.

The type on the right side photo side (I can't say reverse) could also be a crescent top of a Roman standard (see the coins of Philippi). I'm not saying it is, just that it is not necessarily Islamic or a headdress of Isis.   
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Offline Rugser

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Re: Southern Italy, Lead(?)
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 08:05:31 am »
I agree medieval Lazio.
see

 

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