US Firm Ordered To Hand Salvaged Gold & Silver Coin Treasure Over To Spain

[Andrew McCabe]

I'm with the dump crowd; what possible advantage is there in complying?  Of course, chop the coins up first.  Choose a random location.

I see you are allied with the side of the certain archaeologists who advocate smashing ancient pots and discarding coins in the sea to stop them reaching people they don't approve of (in your case, the people of Spain, in the archaeologists case, collectors).

This seems to ally you with both sides of current debate. You wish to do whatever is required, including destroying or discarding ancient artifacts, to stop them getting into the hands of public collections (the Spanish people); those  on the other side will do the same to stop them getting into the hands of private collections (or rather, booty hunters).

I think I'd rather be with the people and public collections of Spain than with booty hunters if that is the choice.

[areich]

I agree with most of what Mark says and threads like this one are a reason for the forum rule against discussing modern politics among other things. I think it is a very good and necessary rule.

[GMoneti]

There couldn't be any chopping or dumping of the coins, because it would mean the end of the company and jail time for its executives.  Odyssey is not supposed to move them, and yesterday Spain sent a couple of Hercules military planes to Florida to pick them up.  The Spanish have been in the warehouse prepping the coins to go "back" to Spain, a place they've never been to.  

What bothers me perhaps the most in this case is the pretension by Spain that this is their "cultural heritage" and a "national treasure".   Their (American) lawyer apparently turned the courtroom into a theater with outpouring of emotions such as the site of the wreck being a sacred gravesite comparable to Pearl Harbor, even though there was pretty much no ship or much else to talk about at that site other than the lumped coins.  I think in regard to this, this forum can appreciate the ridiculousness of the assertion that several hundred thousand milled silver coins from the same era and same mints, are all necessary to be conserved together in order to contribute to the numismatic and historical record.  As if a private company that did what nobody could or bothered to, recovering, conserving and recording their find, somehow violates that purpose.  Let's face it, this was all about the 200 year old cash, and satisfying some egos.  A trophy for "the people" for a while, but ultimately it's hard to envision so many of the same coins being displayed in museums.  I think most here know the fate of "museum surplus" - it either collects dust in the basements or mysteriously dissapears in time.

A point has been made saying "So what? It's Spain's treasure to do as they please."  While this is the case now, after the final judgement, how it came to be so is very dubious.  Even if the wreck was that of the Mercedes, the majority of the money onboard did not belong to the Spanish king, but rather private individuals in South America.  This would mean that  sovereignty shouldn't apply any longer to that warship, since it's on a commercial mission now, transporting private cargo.  And how does an American court order Odyssey to give the coins to the Kingdom, even though said coins did not even belong to it 200 years ago?  The same court said it has no jurisdiction over the matter, but then has jurisdiction to order coins returned to the wrong party?  The (now gone) ship is all Spain's.  They should've gotten that I think.  The treasure is now "legally" theirs, but I am not convinced it's rightfully so.  

[cicerokid]

I am English and I support Odyssey. So does the UK government in it's 2 recent permissions to raise "treasure" from 2 wrecks with the lions share going  rightfully to the salvers

As I asked before did Spain stop Kip Wagners salvage of Spanish warships/merchant ships from the Flota that were sunk by hurricanes off Florida? Did they heck as likes! 

Lets be honest what can you do with  probably millions of  corroded lumped silver coins probably all of the same type, dates, mints etc.. Not so much as a numismacists dream but a nightmare.

Millions of dollars of silver in uninteresting types mainly sitting in pointless costly storage for how long?

Without the majority being melted or sold as souvenirs it is totally pointless. I think Spain will sell it bit by bit after the fuss as died down.

It is Spain being jingoistic : it had rights , just like the UK government but Odyssey should have got a very sizable "finders fee".

Yep I'm a pirate. And so is Spain.

[Andrew McCabe]

So does the UK government in it's 2 recent permissions to raise "treasure" from 2 wrecks with the lions share going  rightfully to the salvers

Yes, the UK government gave permissions. And the relevant government, to give permission in this case, is the Spanish government. Who may well appoint a salvage company, with the rightful share going to the salvers. 

[Vladislav D]

I agree with most of what Mark says and threads like this one are a reason for the forum rule against discussing modern politics among other things. I think it is a very good and necessary rule.

I'm sorry guys , if this post turns out to discussion about  politics , but this topic was  about  news in Archeology world  . As for my personal opinion , seeing all this claims and restrictions  ( Italy , Cyprus , Greece ,Bulgaria ) seems to me in near future it's will be " illegal" to own any ancient coin , or you'll have to have extra room for paperwork . Bigger collection - bigger room   .