Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help  (Read 1184 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ars

  • Guest
Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« on: November 30, 2011, 02:32:34 am »
Part of silver (or billon) denar, c. XI-XII AD, found in central Russia. D=18 mm. Please, help to read it.

Offline Jim Roberts

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 07:30:59 am »
It looks to me like an anonymous schilling of the Livonian Order, circa 1424-1436.  Obv: Shield of the order under a ring, MAGISTRI:LIVONIE.  Rev: Short cross with three pellets in each angle, MONETA:REVALIE.  Here's a photo of one in the DeWit Collection (Kuenker auction, Osnabrueck, October 9, 2007, lot 2981).

Offline dpaul7

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
  • Acta est fabula, plaudite!
    • FORVM GALLERIES
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 08:13:22 am »
To Jim Roberts --

I must say, an EXCELLENT JOB!  I believe you've nailed it!  The image is a bit hard for me to see on the question coin; but with your provided illustration, it becomes clearer!  Great work!

Dpaul7
Age. Fac ut gaudeam.
Aliena nobis, nostra plus aliis placent
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=17252

Ars

  • Guest
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 04:26:02 pm »
Dear Colleague, Many thanks for your help. This unexpected attribution. Typically, in Russia it is impossible to find later coins of XII century. Apparently, this is a rare example of trade between Russia and the Teutonic state.

rick2

  • Guest
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 12:03:32 pm »
isn`t reval in the Baltic ?
i dont think it was in germany

also as far as I know the vikings traded with the samanids in Afghanistan using the russian rivers as they trade routes.
a few hoard of samanids coins originating in northern afghanistan were found in sweden

trade routes were always long , you can find imitation of roman aurei struck in southern india

Ars

  • Guest
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 12:34:34 pm »
Smamanid coins we find a lot, but when in the middle of Asia running out of silver coins began to take Russia out of Europe.

rick2

  • Guest
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 12:45:26 pm »
there you go !
samanids coins were minted with the silver coming out of the mines in northern afghanistan

Online Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12278
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2011, 12:59:27 pm »
Following their defeat by the Samogitians and Semigallians in the Battle of Schaulen (Saule) in 1236, the surviving Brothers merged into the Teutonic Order as an autonomous branch and became known as the Livonian Order. (Wikipedia)

The Baltic cities were members of the German Hanse, their law was 'lübbisch', from the Hanseatic City of Lübeck, and their culture was German until 1945

Best regards


Offline Jim Roberts

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Medieval denar found in Russia - please, help
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 06:30:26 pm »
Ars:  I'm glad to hear that this coin is such an interesting and unusual type over there in Russia.  I'd be curious to know what part of the country this coin was found in.  Somewhere up north?

Years ago I put together an online version of "Die Saurmasche Muenzsammlung", a classic catalog of medieval German coins.  The site let people sample the collection in many ways to help identify coins like this.  For example, if you happened to notice that the coin's obverse had a large cross within a shield-shaped outline (typical of the military orders), you could go to this page:  http://www.medievalcoinage.com/saurma/someoldcoins.org/saur/t/t392.htm

Or, if you noticed that the reverse had a cross with 3 pellets in each corner like an English penny or a low-countries sterling you could go to this page:  http://www.medievalcoinage.com/saurma/someoldcoins.org/saur/t/t396.htm

Either way, you'd find your coin in the list, #2692.  If you then clicked on that coin's number or picture you would get all of the details supplied by the Saurmasche catalog plus a reference to "Map X".  Clicking on that term you'd see a map showing where the coin was issued.  To get an overview of the complexity of the German medieval coinage try clicking the labels at the top of the page: maps, states, rulers, denominations, types.

The coin photos in the Saurmasche catalog are exceptionally poor, so whenever I identify a coin I immediately pull down the catalog of the De Wit collection which has excellent photos of most types, a really fantastic reference work covering the entire range of medieval European coinage.

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity