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Author Topic: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD  (Read 2671 times)

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taurisker

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Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« on: September 08, 2011, 04:07:57 am »
Last spring I had the opportunity to acquire this Sestertius:

Otacilia Severa 244-249 (Philippus I. Arabs ) Roma 248
Obv. MARCIA OTACIL SEVERA AVG diademed, draped bust of Otacilia Severa right
Rev. SAECVLARES AVGG, S C in exergue, hippopotamus walking right
16.54g RIC 200a Cohen 65 (scarce)

The reason why I bought this coin is the impressive pedigree ... provenience: collection Apostolo Zeno (1668-1750), sold at the Dorotheum Vienna on June 15. 1955, No. 1854 and sold again at the Dorotheum Vienna on May 24. 2011, No. 329.

Apostolo Zeno - was a Venetian poet, librettist, journalist and an important collector of Roman coins:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolo_Zeno

There is a strong feeling of owning a coin that has lain almost 300 years ago in a collection of a major Connaisseur!

Regards
taurisker

Offline Potator II

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 04:59:50 am »
Great Hippo and amazing provenance for this one. I understand why you felt you HAD TO acquire it

Congrats
Potator

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 05:07:05 am »
Thats really cool! Awesome hippo too  ;D

Offline Misak33

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 12:05:50 pm »
Realy nice coin! I love this revers.

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 12:19:53 pm »
Love the coin, love the provenance!

Congratulations!

mz

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 01:25:31 pm »
Further to the pedigree: Zeno sold his collection to the monastery at St. Florian near Linz in Austria. Around 1870 F. Kenner, coin curator in Vienna, published a book on some of the more interesting Greek coins in the Zeno-St. Florian collection. I have heard that the monastery decided to sell in 1955 because they needed the cash for a new heating system! The Dorotheum sold the collection in a series of three important catalogues by Robert Göbl. It was a large and interesting collection but not absolutely first rate: few stunning rarities, and condition tended to be only Fine to Very Fine, with few superb pieces.
Curtis Clay

taurisker

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 02:20:31 am »
Further to the pedigree: Zeno sold his collection to the monastery at St. Florian near Linz in Austria. Around 1870 F. Kenner, coin curator in Vienna, published a book on some of the more interesting Greek coins in the Zeno-St. Florian collection. I have heard that the monastery decided to sell in 1955 because they needed the cash for a new heating system! The Dorotheum sold the collection in a series of three important catalogues by Robert Göbl. It was a large and interesting collection but not absolutely first rate: few stunning rarities, and condition tended to be only Fine to Very Fine, with few superb pieces.

Curtis, thank you very much for the info!!
Why sold Zeno his collection just to St. Florian? Is the reason known? Perhaps because of special connections there?
1718-1729 Zeno was at the imperial court at Vienna as a poet/librettist, also he took care of the imperial coin collections. I can imagine that from this time he had many important connections to Austria. But why St. Florian? Why he has not sold, for example, to the imperial collections?

In this example I am fascinated especially by the fact that one can clearly see how a coin moves over the centuries, from collection to collection. It is exciting, once the Romans marched through Europe with their legions, now their coins move. And they still keep on walking... :)

Thanks to all for the comments!

Online Jochen

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 03:58:16 am »
Thanks for sharing. Such a provenance adds a new dimension to the coin. Enviable!

Jochen

Offline mix_val

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 10:23:30 am »
Fantastic coin!
Bob Crutchley
My gallery of the coins of Severus Alexander and his family
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=16147

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 10:47:52 am »
Why sold Zeno his collection just to St. Florian? Is the reason known?

I don't know.

Göbl in his preface to the Dorotheum catalogues doesn't help, since he suppresses the fact that St. Florian was the owner and seller of the collection, apparently in fear of a public outcry against the dispersal of an important collection held by a religious institution!

Kenner probably gives more information in the preface to his book on the collection, of which I may have a copy; will have to check.

I do recall, not sure from what source, that Zeno wanted to sell his collection intact, and that Vienna knew the collection was available, since the Vienna curator wrote an approving assessment of the collection for the abbot at St. Florian.
Curtis Clay

Offline kc

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 11:43:04 am »
Hi taurisker,

that's indeed a beautiful coin with a nice Hippo! Seldom seen such provenance, which makes it more attractive. :)

Regards

kc

taurisker

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 12:59:59 pm »
Kenner probably gives more information in the preface to his book on the collection, of which I may have a copy; will have to check.

I do recall, not sure from what source, that Zeno wanted to sell his collection intact, and that Vienna knew the collection was available, since the Vienna curator wrote an approving assessment of the collection for the abbot at St. Florian.

But this means to me, if the curator of the Vienna court wrote an assessment of the collection for St. Florian, then there was certainly one reason, why the Vienna court has not purchased the large collection of Zeno. Otherwise, if Zeno wanted to sell his collection intact, maybe the curator of the court was only interested in single coins. Augustinian Canons (Augustiner-Chorherren) are mainly interested in the Liturgy of the Hours then in collecting ancient coins. This is a bit strange I think. Would be very exciting to know why Zenos coins took the way to St. Florian and not into the coin cabinet at the imperial court in Vienna!

Thank you in advance for any further information!

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 02:47:26 pm »
You are aware that it was normal for Austrian monasteries in the 18th and 19th centuries to collect Roman coins?

There are important collections to this day, for example, in Göttweig und Klosterneuburg, which I have visited myself, in the Schottenstift in Vienna, and in Zwettl. The Schottenstift collection was published in 1910 by Hübl, and the other three collections mentioned were published more recently by the Institut für Numismatik of the University of Vienna.
Curtis Clay

taurisker

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2011, 02:27:13 am »
You are aware that it was normal for Austrian monasteries in the 18th and 19th centuries to collect Roman coins?

There are important collections to this day, for example, in Göttweig und Klosterneuburg, which I have visited myself, in the Schottenstift in Vienna, and in Zwettl. The Schottenstift collection was published in 1910 by Hübl, and the other three collections mentioned were published more recently by the Institut für Numismatik of the University of Vienna.

Sure, I know about the large collection at Goettweig, also Schottenstift is not complete new to me, but Zwettl, Klosterneuburg and St. Florian, I did not know ... it is a pity that these collections are not public. As far as I know, only numismatists and scientists have the opportunity to see these collections. But is it only the hoarding of treasures, or have the monasteries also scientific interest in their collections?

One reason why Zeno gave his collection to a monastery, in this case St. Florian, could be due to the time period. When he sold his collection it was the time of the beginning of the reign of Maria Theresia. The court at Vienna at that time desperately needed money for the impending war of succession and so perhaps it was very uncertain for Zeno, that his collection will stay preserved in the whole if he will give it to the imperial collections? This is just a thought, but it could have been.

The publications by Huebl (Schottenstift) and for the other collections by the Institute of Numismatic at the University of Vienna, are they available antiquaric?

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 03:08:18 pm »
I don't seem to have Kenner's monograph on the St. Florian Greek coins.

Yes, that book and the others I mentioned are sometimes available second-hand. Some of the Institut f. Num. works may even still be in print.

The problem with these catalogues is that they have no illustrations (Hübl) or just a few (Inst. f. Num.). If you're studying a particular coinage, it doesn't help much to know that a certain hard-to-access collection contains say 46 coins of interest to you. You need pictures of those coins in order to make use of them!
Curtis Clay

taurisker

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2011, 05:16:14 am »
I don't seem to have Kenner's monograph on the St. Florian Greek coins.

Yes, that book and the others I mentioned are sometimes available second-hand. Some of the Institut f. Num. works may even still be in print.

The problem with these catalogues is that they have no illustrations (Hübl) or just a few (Inst. f. Num.). If you're studying a particular coinage, it doesn't help much to know that a certain hard-to-access collection contains say 46 coins of interest to you. You need pictures of those coins in order to make use of them!

Curtis, thanks a lot for your hints!
I discoverd some publications of Szaivert-Alram-Hahn about collections in austrian monasteries on the page of the 'Austrian Academy of Siences Press' (Oesterreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften). For those who are interested in that stuff: http://verlag.oeaw.ac.at/advanced_search_result.php?manufacturers_id=42098

Offline David M3

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 11:38:59 am »
one of the reasons I collect is the history of coins in my collection unlike yours you can tack it back in time. But for me I just like the thought of all the hands my coins have passed through before it got to me.

PS.
I really like you coin very nice addition to a collection.
David V McCallum II

Offline kc

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 03:08:37 pm »
Now I could get a coin that should have been in the Apostolo Zeno Collection.

I bought it from an auction house but I am not sure if it is right what they say,
because there is no picture of the coin in the Dorotheum catalogue so it can be my coin, but also an other example.


https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-83164


Best Regards
kc

Offline gordian_guy

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Re: Otacilia Severa Hippo with pedigree OTD
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 02:23:55 pm »


Wonderful coin, thank you for sharing!!

c.rhodes

 

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