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Author Topic: how can it be? follow up question...  (Read 1414 times)

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Offline vacationchick

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how can it be? follow up question...
« on: July 15, 2011, 03:42:05 am »
Having issues posting... hope this comes through only once.

I totally love this hobby, but due to life, sometimes I may not touch my coins for a year at a time... You know, job, kids, house, etc.

Anyway, I have recently been on a kick again and started posting a few coins in a gallery.  I decided to pull out one of my favorites (it was my first coin to clean) to take a picture for the gallery.  (By the way, since then, I have been buying the lowest grade coins for my torturing pleasure).

As I look at the coin again, I am afraid I am getting bronze disease on the reverse.  I can't remember exactly what it looked like before, but the lighter green stuff seems soft as I could scrape pieces off.  There is also dark green crusties on it, which I have obviously left alone.   I realize it is not a beautiful reverse, but still one of my fav's.

I don't understand how I could have gotten bronze disease as:
1)  I live in the desert.  Literally one of the lowest humidity areas of the Southwest US
2)  I have always treated all of my coins with renwax...
3)  It has been in there for at least 3 years and only looks like this
4)  it is stored in a coin flip by itself

What to do?
Any advice appreciated!

Offline areich

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Re: how can it be?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 04:18:13 am »
Coin flips may trap humidity, wax does not protect against bronze disease. I think it was always there all those years, just inactive.
Andreas Reich

Offline SC

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Re: how can it be?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 06:33:17 am »
Yup.  That's my guess too.

That's why I never wax anything that looks BD-ish.  After treatement for BD I leave coins unwaxed.  Maybe if I see nothing in a few years I will wax it.

Shawn
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Offline renegade3220

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Re: how can it be?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 08:12:57 am »
I know a few people pulling at the reins right now wishing they had that coin in their possession for some more cleaning...

Have you ever thought about getting as much of the deposits off as possible?  Seems that they would always be there, but could be ground down very thin and flat. 

Chris just did a coin with a similar encrustation issue as the reverse of your coin.

Offline casata137ec

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Re: how can it be?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 10:15:29 pm »
I know a few people pulling at the reins right now wishing they had that coin in their possession for some more cleaning...

Have you ever thought about getting as much of the deposits off as possible?  Seems that they would always be there, but could be ground down very thin and flat. 


lol...I was just thinking the same thing! :)

As for the BD, it was probably not fully arrested before waxing. I live in a cesspit of humidity, so if mine re-bloom, it is generally pretty quick. I keep all of them in a rubber sealed container with a ton of dessicant packs and I still somtimes have issues (if I have nor fully cured the BD). As a matter of fact, I check my whole collection (under magnification) quarterly.

I would strip the wax, repair the BD infection and slap it on an exterior windowsill for a month or two to see if it reappears (I have three sitting on my windowsill as we speak, actually!). Flip it daily so that it tones evenly (pollution is great for toning bronze!).

Chris
Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto - Missouri 1822

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=19691

Offline vacationchick

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Re: how can it be?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 03:43:38 pm »
Thank you for all of your responses!  As I mentioned in another post, I just had to drive 4 teenage girls 13 hours to a camp, wait a week, and then drive back... so please forgive me for the delay (maybe a medal and a place in heaven are also in order?)

So... I am a little nervous about working on this bronze disease.  I have read several different recommendations on how to do it and think this is one that I could try, but wanted to check with you guys.

1)  scrape off as much of the soft blue stuff as possible.  I am sure that I will get down to shiny coin in the process... is that expected?
2)  soak it in bronze disease killer... I saw some for sale on a website somewhere... does forum sell it?
3)  rest it on a window sill for a couple weeks, flipping it daily.  Unfortunately, this is our more humid season, but it is still only 23% today so hopefully that will be helpful.
4)  if all looks good, ?re-wax it and store in coin flip again...  leave shiny bits alone to tone over the years?

I will try to remember to recheck it every now and then, but how long until you typically know if it is gone?

I can't tell you how pleased I am that some of you think that one of my coins is worthy of further cleaning :)  As I mentioned, this is the first coin I cleaned.  I started to find shiny metal in a few spots, got down to all the red stuff on the reverse (under huge green crusts), became horribly sad that I had destroyed it, and stopped.  Now I know that the red stuff is expected under the green crusties and feel better that I was able to stop when I did (I do have an overcleaning proclivity).  I keep telling myself that I will come back to this coin when I get good at cleaning coins, but unfortunately, that hasn't really happened yet :P  Maybe someday...

Offline SC

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Re: how can it be? f/u question...
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:09:33 am »
Seems everyone is on vacation.

1) Yes, sadly this often results in shiny surfaces.  Some people take this instruction literally and get every bit of the green-blue off usually resulting in shiny metal pre-treatment.  Others just brush off the loose stuff but leaving the surface still green.  Obviously the more that is left pre-soak the more chance you will not be successful in the treatment.

2) I am not sure who sells it now.  Two of the Gringott's formulae work for BD.  One is speciafically for BD and another also works well.  Search through some threads here on Gringott's and you will get more details.  There are also people's own formulae for BD treatement but I have found it easier to get the Gringott's.  Some people say they have had luck with just the brushing, then drying (often in over for a while) and then some DW soaks.  I have done that on coins with minor BD and it usually works.

3) You can also just rest it anywhere in your house.  Some people recommend putting the coins in a damp cloth for 2-3 days in the belief that this will accelerate any BD that will show up.  I don't know if it really works.  If you keep you coins in flips you should leave it out a while first to see what happens.  If you store in trays that is not as important.  In any event check the coins frequently.

4) Personally I never re-wax a coin that has had BD treatment.  I wax my coins for appearance, not humidity control.  As BD comes mainly from the inside (inner beauty....) waxing a coin that has had the disease once is usually not a good idea.

Sadly BD can re-appear even years later.  Thus BD control is a good excuse to handle and examine your coins frequently.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline vacationchick

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Re: how can it be? f/u question...
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 04:47:04 am »
Thanks for the response!  I ordered some bronze disease killer today and will hopefully get started on this when it arrives!


Offline vacationchick

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Re: how can it be? f/u question...
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 03:29:56 am »
Well, this has certainly been interesting...

I started by soaking this coin in BD killer and gently scrubbing the reverse once a day.  After a few days, I changed the solution and started again.  Then I forgot it for about 3 days and when I pulled it out of the solution for a gentle scrub, all the blue was back and then some!  It seemed to be growing in the deep pits that I was having trouble getting to.  In addition, the color of the reverse seemed to have faded???  Anyway, despite the fact that I didn't want to touch this coin until I developed more skill, I thought it had so be rescued... so I took a deep breath and decided that I had to try to get rid of some of the deep pits. 

I've spent a bit of time on it, but not a ton and have it down to this. The pink crusties have been weird.  In some areas, they are hard and crusty to get off.  In others, the best way I can describe it is that it is like when the dentist finds a softer spot on the tooth and the sharp instrument sinks in a bit and sticks.  In those areas, the pink seems to smear around more than scrape off.  Is that where the BD is??? or is my mind just being "creative" again.

I don't know why some of the edges became so damaged/shiny.  Those were the areas I really didn't touch.  It has now been sitting on the window sill for about a week... so far no new blue areas.  I do live in a dry area, so it may take longer to see if it comes back.

After this novel... here are my questions:
1)  Should I quit here?  I know a lot of people recommended cleaning this... is there more I should do?
2)  The obverse still looks the same as before and is, in my eyes, a pretty black.  Since the reverse has faded so much, and since there are so many damaged areas, is it safe to put jax black on it to make it look decent and more like the obverse?  Obviously, it wouldn't stop BD, but would it hide it so that it could cause more damage without my knowing? 

As always, I appreciate your time and help!

Offline areich

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Re: how can it be? f/u question...
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 06:30:53 am »
I don't think there's anything to improve the reverse, certainly not painting it.
Andreas Reich

Offline Aktina

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Re: how can it be? f/u question...
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 02:58:07 pm »
Jax Black Patina will make the coin whole again.

 

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