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Author Topic: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale  (Read 2749 times)

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Offline byzcoll

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Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« on: August 12, 2011, 06:48:44 am »
Hi,

no one is safe from acquiring fakes, not even Yale. As it has mentioned in a different section, that the coins of Yale University can now be accessed online, I just looked through their specimens from Justinian I and II.

I ran into a solidus of Justinian I, type Constantinople mint (Sear 137), which immediately reminded me of a common fake I have seen somewhere and yes, it is Sear F13.

Description:

Artist:    Ruler Justinian I, Byzantine Emperor A.D. 527-565
Date:    527-538    
Medium:    Gold
Dimensions:    Coin: 4.45 gm., 06:00, 22 mm.
Classification:    Coins and medals    
Work Type:    Coins and medals
Period:    6th century A.D.
Justinian I
Culture:    Byzantine
Credit Line:    The Ernest Collection, in memory of Israel Myers
Rights:    Contact the Yale University Art Gallery
Accession Number:    2007.182.469
Collection:    Coins and Medals    
Repository:    Yale University Art Gallery



I will file a fake report ASAP.

byzcoll

Offline Xenophon

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 09:34:57 am »
Have you notified Yale about this?

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 11:40:58 am »
Have you notified Yale about this?

No. They have more than 30000 coins in stock, so:

1. Would they care?
2. Would they believe that I am serious?

I doubt it.

byzcoll

Offline Abu Galyon

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 12:14:09 pm »
Would they care?  Yes

Would they believe you are serious? Well, yes, especially given that you can point their curator to a published die match in a standard reference book and are not merely relying on subjective observations.

You should send them an email.

Bill R.

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 12:28:24 pm »
OK,

I have just sent an E-mail to Yale University Art Gallery with a precise explanation. Let's see...

byzcoll

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 12:57:02 pm »
A comment on the appearance of the fake:

The transitions between the relief and the fields appear to be a little smooth, indicated by the somewhat fuzzy shine around Justinian's head and around some of the letters. This is also reminiscent of a fake solidus of Anastasius I (original type Sear 4) I have owned and reported on some time ago.

Thus, the fake dies may have been generated by die transfer rather than by engraving. In general after browsing through databases and sales catalogues I am getting the feeling that the "art of the Beirut School" was not in free-hand die engraving but rather in die transfer technology. I further believe that there are a few original specimens from original dies (often just one "published as fake"-die combined with a different original die) around which are now tainted. Who wants to buy a coin with a "die match" to a common fake?

Has any of the specialists (Sear etc.) ever really seen the Beirut people produce their fake dies? Or did they just see those dies in use?

Below is an example with an obverse matching Sear F30 and a reverse which I have never seen published as a fake. So, is the coin a fake or not? At least it looks much more convincing than most of the fakes of the series and it looks much more convincing than the specimen of F30 in the Sear catalogue. It would be interesting to see whether the reverse of the coin I amshowing below is also known with other obverse dies...

You see the challenge in collecting Byzantine gold?   ;)

byzcoll

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 01:17:42 pm »
OK,

here we go:

same reverse die as the coin with a link to F30, yet a "virgin" obverse never ever published as a forgery. Appearance on the photo does not suggest a fake at all and thus it is probably authentic. Both coins are in acsearch.

If a fake cannot be distinguished from an original, then the fake is an original by definition, isn't it?

byzcoll

Offline SRukke

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 05:43:14 pm »
The Yale coin is double struck on the reverse


Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 05:59:10 pm »
The Yale coin is double struck on the reverse



Yes, I have noted that and I have mentioned the fact in the fake report, because it makes the coin more deceiving. I do not have doubts that the Yale specimen is fake despite the difficulties I have demonstrated with the Phocas solidi above.

byzcoll

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 08:38:07 pm »
If an obverse or a reverse is a die match to a known fake struck or pressed with modern dies it is fake.  A fake is a fake, even if someone cannot tell it is fake or even if everyone cannot tell it is fake
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Offline glebe

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2011, 01:02:51 am »
It would be nice to know on what grounds F13 was condemned.  The style looks OK to me.

Ross G.

Offline jmuona

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 05:51:47 am »
Hi Joe,
and others. In another discussion I once asked about this same question.
I understand that if a die can be shown to have been made in later times, all coins struck with one or two such dies must be fakes.
However, if a genuine EF coin is used as the host to produce a forgers die, that die when used to strike a fake proves nothing. So the key is that somehow you have to prove the die to be a later one, it is not enough to say that a coin sharing a die with a forgery must be a forgery. This simply is too simple. Often this is easy, I know, but it certainly is not foolproof. Only by denying the possibility of the existence of perfectly copied dies the situation is simple. This we cannot do consequently then there must be cases where forgeries can be figured out only by metal analysis (sometimes) or some other clue that is not related to the die.
Do people use this die argument because it often holds? That I would understand, but whenever the fake coin is struck and with copied original die or dies, it becomes really hard and I would not be surprised if a much-faked series like the byzantine golds would not be plaged with this as well.
s.
Jyrki Muona

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 06:39:26 am »
Dear Jyrki,

this is exactly the problem and yes, Byzantine gold collecting is plagued with it. From the photo I still would place the Yale coin in the fake category.

My statement "If a fake cannot be distinguished from an original, then the fake is an original by definition, isn't it?" is a sarcastical one, of course.

The situation can be really difficult. I have a pair of Isaurian solidi, which share an obverse die. Both coins have been bought from large auction houses/dealers specializing in ancient coins. By use of  a microscope it is evident that the one coin has a slightly deeper relief/background than the other. On the one hand this can be ok if the die has been polished after some time of use. On the other hand the second coin may be a close to perfect fake. ("Close to" because of the difference in the "deepness" and a problem at one point of the annular border). I guess every collector of the series ends up with a number of coins, which may be high-end copies to be uncovered in the future as more coins enter the market (die matches) and as testing technology advances. But I admit that many collectors probably do not thoroughly research and examine their acquisitions.

byzcoll

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 07:29:41 am »
If an obverse or a reverse is a die match to a known fake struck or pressed with modern dies it is fake.  A fake is a fake, even if someone cannot tell it is fake or even if everyone cannot tell it is fake.  

Of course yes when struck with modern designed dies.

For CAST fakes or struck coins with the die made from an original moulded from a genuine coin, and when the fakes are very low in number then there is a possibility that one of the known specimens may be the original host coin specially when that specimen is in an old or well-known collection from which copies may have been take in all innocence. I show below three such dilemmas.

In the first case both coins are fakes, unquestionably. Quite apart from the evidence of casting, they differ each from the other in ways that show one cannot have been made from the other but must both stem from another source:



In the second case, the door is slightly ajar to the possibility that the lower item might be an original (the upper one plainly is not), but it fails different tests - the lower one does not look in patina, metal, strike and so on like an original coin from that period. The metal is wrong (Romans didn't strike in pure copper or high-copper bronze at the time, nor are potential understrikes like this)  and there is a softness to the 'strike' that suggests the mould have been made from an electrotype; it has that texture. But the killer detail is the hair behind the neck - there is MORE detail in the obvious fake than on the better looking item. So, both modern.



The third example is tough. The top two items are clearly fakes and if you doubt that for a second just look at 9pm where both have metal infilling the gap in the lower coin. Patina, surface etc are consistent with casts. The lower one at first glance could conceivably be original, but as with the second example above, knowing that fakes exist I could not confidently say it is original, because if it is, it has evidently been cleaned and there are many small pinholes in the surface. I've actually handled it (as well as the middle example) and it looks good to the sight, but would have to condemn it, considering its surface and knowing how its sister Minervas look like. So, all three modern.



Sometimes the comparisons are much easier, such as those below, about which nothing more needs to be said.



From what I've seen of these identical copy cases, the default should always be to assume ALL are fakes - presume guilt rather than innocence in the case of identical copies - unless one coin can really prove itself beyond doubt. This is different from the usual case where one assumes that genuine looking and feeling coins are in fact genuine, and for good reason, because the existence multiple identical copies has changed the balance of probabilities.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2011, 07:46:14 am »
Have you notified Yale about this?

No. They have more than 30000 coins in stock, so:

1. Would they care?
2. Would they believe that I am serious?

I doubt it.

byzcoll

They would care. It is a 2007 acquisition which makes it likely it is from a modern donation or purchase. They would want to change its designation to fake.

Whether you could bend their ear to convince them is another matter, but from my experience addressing fakes in expert private or public collections, it is best not to email the way you would an eBay seller of fakes, but in an academic manner with a full presentation of evidence. If you know someone who could liaise on the correspondence it would help, for example if you know a published author on Byzantine coins, or someone in the ANS. I've a route into Yale and many other numismatic collections but  unfortunately I can't warrant anything outside my own study area.

Offline jmuona

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 04:24:28 pm »
Hi,
about Yale - if I remember correctly, William Metcalf (ex-ANS Roman coins) is in Yale nowadays. I am absolutely sure he would be interested in correcting this, being a really excellent professional numismatist.
As to the fakes, I have noticed - hardly revolutionary I guess - that coins of the period I know pretty well (68-69 CE) show a clear forgery pattern in European auctions. The real one and the copies made from the same dies both arrive in auctions, the copies usually later on. These are cast, but then would I recognize struck ones? However, as I have a database of Otho denarii, I follow these carefully and I have noticed that struck coins of identical dies or die do not follow this pattern. They are rare and far removed. Cast forgeries are not. An example of this sequence is the Toronto group fake Otho in the Forum galleries. One of the coins is the host/real like the host. I have mentioned this in a comment under the coin, because I used to own the coin. I sold it in New York International long ago, but unfortunately I cannot be sure about the person it went to - a not prominent dealer anyway.
s.
Jyrki Muona

Offline byzcoll

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2011, 04:30:22 pm »
Would they care?  Yes

Would they believe you are serious? Well, yes, especially given that you can point their curator to a published die match in a standard reference book and are not merely relying on subjective observations.

You should send them an email.

Bill R.

OK,

I have just sent an E-mail to Yale University Art Gallery with a precise explanation. Let's see...

byzcoll


I never got an answer to my message (except an automated reply) and I probably never will.

byzcoll

Offline spqrclaudius

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 11:13:04 am »
This is an old message, but I am a doctoral candidate at Yale and will forward this to Bill myself.

Offline spqrclaudius

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Re: Fake solidus of Justinian I at Yale
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 11:41:03 am »
(Never say never--even in a collection the size of Yale's, every individual coin counts.)

 

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