First batch of uncleaned coins purchased - expert opinion needed

[BiancasDad]

This is the first batch of uncleaned coins that I have ever purchased. I just gave them a quick 2 hour soak and light tooth-brushing just to see what I got.

I paid $4 per coin (25 total)  from what I believe to be a reputable dealer (of course I don't know squat other than my own personal research at this point) Also, I'm not sure if it is against policy to discuss actual dealer names so I won't just to be safe. I also have a lot coming from an E-bay dealer (yikes-scary) for $2 per coin just to see the difference in what you get for the price and to get an idea of what's out there.

Would some experienced collectors be kind enough to give their opinion on this batch of coins. Is this what a batch of coins should look like for $4 each? Are the ones with holes in it acceptable or good just for practice?

They look like a respectable batch to me and I am extremely excited to get started with the first real soak. I can see how patience is going to be a challenge as I just want to start scrubbing, picking, scraping, etc.

Thanks in advance, any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[areich]

That's a lot of money for what are essentially low-grade culls. None of them as far as I can see have a decent patina and probably few will clean up nicely. It's funny that on one hand you can't even give away decently preserved Late Romans but take junk and call it 'uncleaned coins' and people will pay serious money for them.
This is not meant as a personal attack but I think this was not a good purchase at all at that price. Less than half would be closer to a fair price.

Here are two lots that no one wanted for $32



and $24



Unfortunately uncleaned sellers are a particularly shady bunch, at best you pay too much for basically decent coins that are often not really uncleaned, at worst you pay a lot for complete junk that the best cleaner in the world couldn't do anything with.

[BiancasDad]

No offense taken. Thank you for the honest opinion. Ive done worse things with 100 bucks in my life but as you said, its seems that at every corner is another shady seller. So basically, trying to clean this batch would be like trying to put cologne on a pile of dog doo and hope it smells nice?

This will go down in my personal history as my most expensive practice batch 

Any suggestions for getting some truly "uncleaned" coins that are worth paying a premium for.

Thanks again.

-Kurt

[Pekka K]

I tried one or two of these:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=869&pos=0#Uncleaned%20Coins

Pekka K

[areich]

Now you've bought them you might as well give it a try. Look at the one to the left of the holed (probably modern) coin.
There you can see, at the lower edge, three layers. At the edge you have the bare metal, aboove that, in green, the patina, and above that, dirt. In a dry state you can, very carefully, try to get below the dirt with a needle and lift it off. Scrubbing is not a good idea for this coin, you might scrubb off the dirt and the patina. That wouldn't be so bad, if most of the remaining detail (if there is any) under the dirt wasn't in the patina. This and a few other coins are good for practicing this kind of cleaning.

Most of the coins look to me like they wouldn't survive a vigorous scrubbing.

[BiancasDad]

Thanks again Pekka and Areich for the info.

I will definitely practice on these coins to get some experience.

Purchased a book and a small premium lot from here as well.

Regards,

-Kurt

[SC]

I am afraid that I have to share areich's views of your coins.

If you are paying more than $3 you want some thing that looks like those two small lots areich showed.  Despite the fact that they are not really "uncleaned" but more like "semi-cleaned" there is still stuff to do with them to make them look better.  They will all be attributable and there are some very nice coins in there.

Nothing wrong with lower end uncleaned lots to practice on.  Some people stick with lower end anyway as they love the lottery experience.  Just don't pay much more than $2 for lower end.

Shawn

[areich]

No, they're not uncleaned, just meant to illustrate something. People love the treasure hunt so the'd rather buy a lot of low-grade 'uncleaneds', hoping for something rare or valuable than pay less for better coins they know are nothing special. Of course if there was something truly rare in this lot (not just a common coin with an extra dot), its value would still be in in the single digits.

This lot of uncleaneds will not, even with the best cleaning, produce a coin you couldn't easily buy for $4. While of course it is a hobby, not a business, the value for money is just a little too low in my opinion.

[BiancasDad]

The more I research dealers and such, the clearer the picture is becoming. (pretty ugly picture indeed)

Like anything in life, if you really want to learn, the resources are there.

I picked the coin on the bottom lower left to practice on (picture shows the reverse) and so far this is what the obverse looks like.

Note: Just started with a little soak, toothbrush, toothpick, and then start messing around with a safety pin as my picks and things havent arrived in the mail yet.

Took a kind of before and after picture just to see the progression, plus I think it will help me understand how to hone my techniques as I understand the coins more.

Comments appreciated as always....thanks

[areich]

The needle technique only works when the coin is completely dry. What you need to do is find a place where you can get under the dirt, just a tiny bit, being careful not to touch the coin, and lift. A small piece or if you're lucky a larger piece of dirt will 'pop off'.
The coin pictured does not look like the ideal candidate for this kind of cleaning but if you want to try it has to be completely dry.

[SC]

Kurt,

Yes, unfortunately as ariech says that coins looks like a very difficult one.  It looks like a type that has a hard layer of thin dirt over a very thin layer (1/10 mm) of hard "patina" over very soft powder.  The powder is a result of corrosion of the surface so under the poweder is only the basic form of the coin type with very little detail.  Thus the real detail is in the dirt and the extremely thin, fragile and brittle patina layer.

There is no easy solution to these.

One option is areich's idea which is to work on it dry - to try to pick / lever the dirt off or shave it off with a very sharp scalpel.  That can work but I have had lots of problems where the thin fragile patina just pops off as well.

Another option is to soak in DW and gently brush this coin with the goal of only thining the dirt layer to the point where you can make out the legend and mint mark and not bothering to go down to the thin patina layer.  Less nice a coin but perhaps more chance of survival.

If this is a practice coin you may wish to try both - of course starting with areich's dry method.

Shawn

[BiancasDad]

I see.

When you mean completely dry do mean for me to oven bake it at 200 degrees or just paper towel and air dry for an hour or so?

Guess I will keep at this coin just to see what happens. At this point, I dont have the knowledge to be able to know where the patina is, how thin it is, how much dirt is still on the coin, etc.

Maybe Ill look for another coin too that looks like it has a thicker patina just to see if I can recognize the subtle differences.

Rome wasn't built in a day!

Thank you both as always,

Kurt